close

Privacy guaranteed - Your email is not shared with anyone.

357 Sig versus 40 S&W out of Glock 32/23 and 33/27

Discussion in 'Caliber Corner' started by CDW4ME, Mar 5, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. CDW4ME

    CDW4ME

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2009
    Messages:
    1,786
    Likes Received:
    288
    Location:
    No Mag Limit USA
    I decided to obtain fresh chrono data today with 4 of my pistols, average for 5 shots:

    Glock 32:
    Winchester Ranger T 125 gr. @ 1,334 fps / 494# KE / PF 167
    Speer Gold Dot 125 gr. @ 1,344 fps / 501# KE / PF 168
    Federal HST 125 gr. @ 1,358 fps / 512# KE / PF 170

    Glock 23:
    Federal Hydra-Shok 180 gr. @ 969 fps / 375# KE / PF 174
    Remington Golden Saber 165 gr. @ 1,048 fps / 402# KE / PF 173
    Winchester Ranger T 165 @ 1,146 fps / 481# KE / PF 189

    Glock 33:
    Winchester Ranger T 125 gr. @ 1,280 fps / 455# KE / PF 160
    Speer Gold Dot 125 gr. @ 1,284 fps / 458# KE / PF 161
    Federal HST 125 gr. @ 1,315 fps / 480# KE / PF 164

    Glock 27:
    Federal Hydra-Shok 180 gr. @ 940 fps / 353# KE / PF 169
    Remington Golden Saber 165 gr. @ 1,028 fps / 387# KE / PF 170
    Winchester Ranger T 165 @ 1,113 fps / 454# KE / PF 184

    The 40 S&W Ranger T 165 displayed the most deviation over the chrono; I shot three or four groups of 5 over the chrono before I was satisfied with the result.
    PF = power factor which is a calculation that can be used to compare recoil in similar pistols.
    In 40 S&W notice the PF difference between the 180 Hydra-Shok and the 165 Ranger T, that is felt when shooting.

    I prefer the recoil impulse of the 357 Sig loads or the 180 Hydra-Shok 40 S&W.
    The Remington 165 GS is similar in recoil, but it has harder primers and that Glock 23 ejects the brass from the 180 Hydra-Shok the most consistently and in the desired location (not over my head).
     
  2. unit1069

    unit1069

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2007
    Messages:
    8,552
    Likes Received:
    453
    Location:
    So. Central US
    I'm not really sure what raw chrono data is supposed to indicate in regard to terminal ballistics effectiveness.

    I'm more inclined to value the total displacement of material (measured in cubic inches) in calibrated gelatin, together with expansion results for consideration.

    That, and anecdotal street proven statistics for a given round.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2014

  3. PattonT

    PattonT

    Joined:
    May 22, 2010
    Messages:
    1,624
    Likes Received:
    100
    Location:
    South East TN
    I have always thought that kinetic energy does not have much relativity with ballistics, it places way to much emphasis on velocity and not enough on mass or weight. While velocity is important, without enough weight the bullet comes to a stop too soon. Momentum, places more emphasis on penetration and not "work" like kinetic energy.

    I will say that 180 gr 40s&w normally shoots softer, 165gr across the board is generally a better performer.
     
  4. GRR

    GRR

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2004
    Messages:
    2,437
    Likes Received:
    517
    Location:
    Bessemer, AL
    At near the same power factor, the heaver bullet will shoot softer. Otherwise not sure what you're after.
     
  5. Tiro Fijo

    Tiro Fijo

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    6,281
    Likes Received:
    16




    I've never heard nor read of anyone saying Rem. primers were "hard" ever. CCI, yes. Also, if you're getting brass regularly over your head in a Glock you're limpwristing, plain & simple. Perhaps you need to step down to say a .25 Auto or maybe a really big knife.
     
  6. peaves

    peaves

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks for sharing. I was surprised at how low the Golden Saber 165gr's were compared to the Ranger-T's.
     
  7. CDW4ME

    CDW4ME

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2009
    Messages:
    1,786
    Likes Received:
    288
    Location:
    No Mag Limit USA
    #1 myth on Glocktalk :shame:

    No, the 180 gr. Hydra-Shok ejects to the right, only the Golden Saber and Winchester Ranger T brass went over my head.
    The 27, 33, or 32 did not throw brass over my head, does that mean I hold them correctly, but not the 23?
    If so, why does my other 23 eject properly with Ranger T? Maybe because it was made in 1992.
    I'm going to replace the extractor in the offending 23 with another Lone Wolf cast model to see what difference it makes on ejection; it has a Lone Wolf but sometimes I just don't get lucky.
    I'm using Lone Wolf in my Glock 36,30 and 29 without a problem - no brass over my head with them either so that that limpwrist myth is worthless.
     
  8. fredj338

    fredj338

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    24,725
    Likes Received:
    3,178
    Location:
    so.cal.
    IME, limp wristing will cause a malfunction most of the time. The direction of the brass ejection is often a factor of the shape of the ejector & extractor.:dunno:
    Just a note, in my G26, using BlackHills 124gr+P, I am getting 1200fps+, close enough to the 357sig in the shorter bbl to call it good compared to most 357sig loads in a G33. The 357sig really benefits from a longer bbl.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2014
  9. itstime

    itstime

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2006
    Messages:
    7,176
    Likes Received:
    19
    Location:
    USA
    Thanks for sharing.
     
  10. Tiro Fijo

    Tiro Fijo

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    6,281
    Likes Received:
    16




    No, it means that the 180 gr. caused enough slide velocity (enertia) to:


    A. overcome your poor grip technique


    or


    B. you are breaking your wrists shooting the hotter loads.
     
  11. CDW4ME

    CDW4ME

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2009
    Messages:
    1,786
    Likes Received:
    288
    Location:
    No Mag Limit USA
    That doesn't account for the other Glock 23 ejecting perfectly with any ammo. As if I have any better grip on the 27 with the same ammo. Ranger T would create the greatest slide velocity.

    Your theory is crap. Convenient how my 29, and 36 ejecting fine was ignored, both recoil more than a 23. The 32 recoils a little less.
    I had a 19 that ejected random brass over my head until I replaced the extractor and ejector- then it ejected fine, same ammo.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2014
  12. fredj338

    fredj338

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Messages:
    24,725
    Likes Received:
    3,178
    Location:
    so.cal.
    ^^THIS^^ Direction of brass is almost always a function of the gun itself, not the shooter. I have a 1911 that I had modified so the brass ejects almost forward as it exists, all my others eject about 45deg to my right, so it's not me but the gun.
     
  13. ABNAK

    ABNAK

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2005
    Messages:
    731
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Tennessee
    Man, that sucks! I thought the 165gr Golden Saber was supposed to be a "solid" 1125-1150fps load out of a 4" barrel (?). Has Remington downloaded it over the years? I'm talking about the velocities maybe 20 years ago or so when it first came out.
     
  14. CDW4ME

    CDW4ME

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2009
    Messages:
    1,786
    Likes Received:
    288
    Location:
    No Mag Limit USA
    Golden Saber has always been softer shooting than other lighter bullets.

    I put a 357 Sig barrel in the picky Glock 23 today and ejection was nearly perfect for 40 rounds, one brass case ejected close to me (5 o'clock).
    After shooting. I swapped the rear sight to optimize POA/POI as 357 Sig hits a little lower than 40 S&W. I plan to recheck tomorrow, assuming brass ejects acceptably again and POA/ POI is good- that 23 is gonna be a 32.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2014
  15. cheygriz

    cheygriz Venerable Elder

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2000
    Messages:
    528
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    High up in the rockies
    If there is any difference in the ability of any of these loads to stop a fight, it a theoretical, "on paper" difference, not a real world "on the street" difference.
     
  16. CDW4ME

    CDW4ME

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2009
    Messages:
    1,786
    Likes Received:
    288
    Location:
    No Mag Limit USA
    I like this ^ :cool:
     
  17. RyanNREMTP

    RyanNREMTP Inactive/Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2007
    Messages:
    3,556
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Waco, Texas
    Years ago while at some training we were shooting 40 cal target ammo at some plywood cutouts of Santa. I wanted to try something different so I switched out barrels on my G22 and put a 357 Sig barrel in and shot some 357 target ammo at the same plywood cutouts. Here are the results:

    40 caliber target ammo out of a Glock 22
    [​IMG]


    357 Sig target ammo out of a basically Glock 31.
    [​IMG]

    Cool results for the 357 Sig ammo but still it means nothing to me. I still wouldn't want to get shot with any ammo of any caliber out there. Well maybe 68 caliber paintball but that's it.
     
  18. English

    English

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2005
    Messages:
    4,585
    Likes Received:
    43
    Location:
    London
    But note that the recoil (power factor) of the Ranger T 165gn is 8.6% greater than the Hydra-Shok 180gn, but its KE is 28.3% greater. Provided the penetration of the Ranger T is sufficient (which I don't think is a problem), the 8.6% extra recoil seems a price well worth paying for 28.3% more KE.

    English
     
  19. English

    English

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2005
    Messages:
    4,585
    Likes Received:
    43
    Location:
    London
    What and where is the data that says thee is no difference between the on the street results of these different loads? If there is no advantage to 28% more KE you might as well shoot 9mm at less cost and greater capacity.

    English
     
  20. English

    English

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2005
    Messages:
    4,585
    Likes Received:
    43
    Location:
    London
    Note:
    and:
    The Hydra-Shok and Golden Saber have virtually identical PFs and therefore the slide velocity generated is also virtually the same yet one ejects normally and the other ejects over his head.

    You need to re-think your convictions on this issue because th evidence is stacked against you.

    The fact that limp wristing causes some feeding and ejection problems does not imply that all feeding problems are cause by limp wristing (Logic 101).

    English
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2014
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.