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357 Sig Pros and Cons

  1. The 357 sig produces some impressive ballistics but it does so at the cost of high pressures and increased muzzle blast. I got a LW 357 sig barrel for my Gen 2 G23 and bought some relatively inexpensive 125 grain FMJ PPU (Privi Partisan, Made in Serbia) and the first time I shot it I tried the gun first with the 40 caliber ammo, (Speer Lawman 180 gr FMJ) and then swapped barrels and tried the 357 sig ammo. The 357 Sig appeared to have a little sharper recoil than the 40 and there was noticeably more muzzle blast.

    I later found out that the PPU ammo is loaded very hot and is rated at 1542 FPS while most 357 sig 125 grain ammo is loaded to 1350 fps. The Cor-bon 125 grain JHP ammo is loaded to 1525 fps. I haven't tried reloading for it yet but I suspect that it may be difficult to safely approach those top velocities. I also found out that the 357 sig operates at a higher chamber pressure than 9mm or 40 S&W, 40,000 PSI for the Sig vs. 35,000 for the 9 and the .40.

    My thinking is that this round is probably optimum for concealed carry in something like a G32 but I'd like it even better in the single-stack G43. But for home defense it's got too much muzzle blast to be shooting indoors in close quarters in a stress situation with no hearing protection.
     
  2. Good to know about PPU, I am going to get some. Most commercial 357 Sig ammo is pretty mild.

    My gen 2 G23 (circa 1994) was not certified to shoot 357 Sig.

    I like the 357 Sig. It's a laser beam out of a Sig 226. It's my woods/bear caliber.
    Pro: Accurate, powerful, easy to find, easy to shoot
    Con: Expensive, may cause more wear on the firearm.
     
  3. I would take the ppu velocity claims woth a grain of salt. They dont say what bbl length they get that from. It is likely closer to 1450fos, still plenty hot i a 4" service gun. I personnaly think actual recoil feels slightly less than the 155gr 40 service loads. Blast is fierce, but if you are a beliver in the 125gr 357mag load, you get it in a very compact, shootable platform.
     
  4. I thought about getting a conversion barrel for my gen4 G23, but probably won't if I need to be concerned about the higher pressure. I thought about getting one for my G20, but don't see the point. If I can shoot 10mm, why bother with .357 sig?
     
  5. I like the horsepower but muzzle blast is fierce as is stout loads in a .357 magnum wheel gun. for indoors I prefer a .45.
    Check hornady ammo. I think their .357 Sig ammo is only slightly hotter than their 9mm+p
     
  6. Yeah, I'm doubtful of those velocities as well.
     
  7. There is really no higher pressure issue. 9mm+p, 357sig, 40 all run about the same.
     
  8. I have been carrying my 2Gen 32 for a lot of years never any problem at all and all factory ammo shot in it I can attest to 2000+ rounds 90% all Ranger T GI or Gold Dot 125's with some Cor-Bon , the best shooting Glock I have shot, I carry it daily and continue to do so. Don't plan to change.

    FYI don't shoot one in an underground sewer at a rat, 1 time was enough.
    I had 2 1 shot kills on a coyote at 75+ yds with it holding on the top of back.
     
  9. I have a G33, and since I got it, I have acquired a Sig P239 and a Smith M&P 40 to which I have added a .357 Sig barrel. I LOVE the muzzle blast! If I can't hit them, I can sure singe them a bit, and pretty much blind them. As far as for indoors, I don't mind my ears ringing for awhile, seeing as how it will probably only take one or two well-placed shots.

    Just my fiftieth-part-of-a-dollar. Your mileage may vary.
     
  10. I love my P239, most accurate small gun I own. Though I am not a huge fan of the blast as I get older.
     
  11. The Prvi Partizan website says their 357 SIG is 470 meters/sec (1542 fps) from a 150mm (5.9") barrel.
     
  12. Yeah I couldn' find the bbl length. So even if you want to believe ANY manuf vel numbers, subtract another 100fps for a 4" service bbl, 1450fps. Anything around 1400fps is about "normal" for 357sig in 4" guns.
     
  13. This is what I got in two guns with the 357sig,

    new 124gr UW 357sig with nosler bullets
    4.6''LW barrel in a G27 and a 6'' LW barrel in a G20
    1526fps no jams,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,1604fps no jams, both
    ten shots

    Have shot a box of this but have not chronoed it, it
    is a super good deal,

    https://massammo.com/sperr-gold-dot-357-sig-125gr-gdhp-flat-rate-shipping.html

    Technical:

    • Manufacture: Speer
    • Item #: 54234
    • Caliber: .357 Sig
    • Grains: 125
    • Type: Hollow Point
    • Rounds Per Box: 50
    • Casing: Nickel-Plated
    Ballistics:

    • Muzzle velocity: 1350 fps
    • Muzzle energy: 506 ft lbs.
    Don't know what barrel length they used.

    I did get 1200 rounds of it.
     
  14. Blast is a nonissue , if the wep is used for real no blast will be heard and you will not see any flash. Just BS alot of folks worry about for no reason. I carry a 32 every single day, I've shot alot of 357s magnum and SIG. Never once has either of those things bothered me. The 357 is a solid self defense choice over looked by many.
     
  15. For me this whole muzzle blast, flash and concussion thingy is bizarre.​
    I enjoy and carry guns in both calibers(357 & 40).

    357 Sig tends to be more expensive and harder to find.
    357 Sig seems to perform slightly better through cover and on the street.
    The Secret Service and Air Marshals continue to carry 357 Sig.

    Admittedly, if you go full pressure (1,457 fps), 357 Sig can be a handful.
    But that's Magnum Force, and who wants to argue with that?
     
  16. Interesting topic, I'm looking at buying a .357 sig gun in the near future. From the research I've done, it seems that ammo cost is higher and hand loading is a little trickier... anyone here, that has a .357 sig gun, not happy with their purchase? if so why??
     
  17. I carry a 33 when I go to town . I seldom go to town . Not worried about the ammo cost , but it is a bunch higher . I also have a 32C and a couple 357 converversion barrels . I carry a pocket 9 mm a bunch around the place and for quick local trips . Anything is better than nothing so I just slide the 9 in the pocket .

    I also have a 9 mm Glock 19 on the nightstand For the house ,I just figured it might not be quite as loud or have as much muzzle flash if fired in the house . I am sure it will still be loud and bright but that is my logic .
     
  18. Agree, people seem to repeatedly confuse the range with the street. If you carry a gun for SD you don't complain about recoil or blast, if you use your gun for range and fun then recoil and blast can detract from the experience. It's just a matter of what your priorities are and not getting confused.
     
  19. Agree, when you look up and see someone coming around the back of your car with a butcher knife in their hand Magnum Force will be your friend arguments will not be heard.
     
  20. I have shot IDPA with full house 357Sig, carry daily, night stand, it is my go to for all an indoor IDPA 3 of us went with issued Gold Dots and Ranger T, that was something to see in the low light stages. Some of the older ammo sure did seem much stronger though. At 1 time Blazer loaded it, that was hot stuff. I have never reloaded it all I have shot is factory Gold Dot - Ranger T - Blazer - Cor Bon all of which have been excellent.
    We had an exercise and shot through some airline seats with the Ranger T and it did great as well as the G Dot. It all works well.
     
  21. The most inherently accurate round I've ever fired. My rattley CPO SIG P229R is on par with "target" 1911s costing 5x as much.

    If you have an internet connection, ammunition purchasing is a non issue. A box of top tier self defense rounds is on par .40 or .45 ACP if you spend two minutes shopping. FMJs routinely had for under $20 a box if you know where to buy.
     
  22. Still #1 here for all daily carry, if I do expect to shoot very many rounds in daily activities I do carry a 9 or 45 sometimes both my 357 and another. Rarely I make my feeding rounds without firing a shot. Just me here but almost or never have I seen anyone with a 357 SIG shooting that was not or had not been connected with LE.
     
  23. Ever fired a 357sig indoors without ears? I have. I lost 100% of my hearing for a good 30 seconds. That can be an issue. Why I downgraded to 9mm for indoors.
     
  24.  
  25. I reload for the 357 sig. using longshot powder, a 23 with lone wolf barrel & 124 hornady HPs averages 1440. that's not a maximum charge of longshot I am using. you really save a lot reloading 357 sig compared to say reloading 9mm.
     
  26. My wife's agency and the local PD carry Sig P229's chambered in .357 Sig. I have spoken with a few of them and they all spoke highly of their confidence in the round in their duty weapon. My former agency and their local PD switched from Sig P220's in .45 acp some years ago and now carry G17's (PD) or G23 (Sheriff's) and also seem happy with them. I personally did not care for the .40, as most of my experience was with either .45 acp or .357 Magnum revolvers.
     
  27. Pro's & Con's of .357SIG?

    Still seemingly pretty much the same as they've been since its introduction ...

    Pro's:

    Faster velocity than many 9mm loads, for similar bullet weight, including the established +P & +P+ loads, but with the major loads from the big ammo makers usually falling a bit short of the originally advertised 1450fps (and sometimes by as much as 100-150fps).

    Some owners/shooters report they obtain easier, better practical accuracy.

    Con's:

    Increased muzzle blast.

    Short neck to hold bullet in case mouth.

    Potential for increased and/or accelerated wear & tear on the guns.

    Inconsistency in availability of the ammunition, combined with cost issues.

    Not one of the "Big 3" of service/duty calibers, so interest seems allocated more to the private buyer/shooter.



    This is one of those issues where "beauty is in the eye of the beholder", though, so it's really up to each individual to assign the meanings and relevance of any "pro & con" considerations as he/she feels it's appropriate. No biggie.

    I don't know may cops in this part of the West Coast who carry the .357SIG (aside from one county agency), and I only personally know one cop who used one in a shooting (2 shots fired at close range to stop armed suspect), and he doesn't carry it anymore (preferring 9, .357 Magnum, 45 ACP and even .38 Spl).

    This is the sort of situation where folks who can choose for themselves, meaning private owners, only really need to satisfy themselves. The caliber will remain around for many years, no doubt. ;)
     
  28. I definitely like the 357 SIG. It's a good application for self defense and what surprised me the most is the numbers you can achieve with it if you load your own. I have two slightly extended KKM barrels, a 4.5" for my G23 and a 5" for my G22. I've loaded warm .40 S&W for quite a while so I had always wanted to see what the 357 SIG can do with one caveat, using actual .357" bullets, not .355".

    From the 4.5" barrel:
    Factory 125gr Speer Gold Dot's averaged 1373 fps
    Handloads (won't past charges here):
    125gr XTP @ 1.140" = 1,618 AVG - 37.42 ES - 26.17 SD
    140gr XTP @ 1.140" = 1,456 AVG - 30.84 ES - 21.93 SD
    158gr XTP @ 1.140" = 1,388 AVG - 8.12 ES - 5.65 SD

    Needless to say, I was impressed!

    As for any cons, it's not as abundant as 9mm, .40 and .45 and from a reloading perspective, it's not hard to reload for but there are a few extra steps taken because it's a bottleneck cartridge.
     
  29. Why on earth would you fire any gun indoors without hearing protection?

    You're not implying that one can safeguard one's hearing shooting 9mm indoors without protection, are you?
     
  30. I don't know. I can't think of a situation where I'd need to do that in real life.
     
  31. Were you defending your life? Or just thought it'd be cool to fire a round without protection. There is a difference, I've been in LE many years and have discharged numerous calibers over the years in the line of duty and I NEVER heard the report or saw flash or felt fecoil. These things worry those that have never had to defend ones life, period.
     
  32. Maybe at night. In your house. Unless you sleep wearing earplugs.

    I've seen both situations. Times when the report wasn't really noticed. And times when hearing was damaged. Try short barrel 5.56 carbines indoors. Permanent hearing loss is often the result. .357 SIGs aren't as loud, but they are certainly louder than 9mm or .45 ACP.
     
  33. Sure, if under dire threat I assume 99.9% or more defenders don't have hearing protection when they fire their weapons, but to do so indoors (or even outdoors) when under no such threat is begging for hearing damage.
     
  34. 357 SIG Pros vs Cons

    Pros 10, Cons 0 - Final Score.
     
  35. Not my plinking pistol but for anything serious it is #1. Never let me down, I was pleasantly surprised just how much penetration they have, never saw a car door shot but they sure will go completely through an Airline seat and take out a target behind it and all the metal in it. That was Ranger T ammo.
     
  36. 1350 as per PPU.


    The 357Sig shines as a field round.

    5.3" LWD Bbl. for the G23.4, and S&B 140 gr. FP or HDY 147 gr. XTP.

    1300 fps+ MV and 550 lb-ft+ ME.

    Flat shooting, and 9mm point-blank performance at 100 yards.




    Nutter
     
  37. Absolutely. Although many police officers find themselves in such situations, as well. Not pleasant. Even outdoors, it is damaging to hearing.
     
  38. I was out with a bunch of guys shooting and had a 30 carbine Blackhawk which is even louder than a 357 mag. We took our earplugs out and were talking when one of the guys kicked a 5 gallon can down the hill where we were standing and we all drew our guns and fired at it, without first putting in our ear protection.

    I immediately lost 95% of my hearing and couldn't hear what my friends were saying. I began to feel sick to my stomach and somewhat disoriented and couldn't hear anything for about two hours and then my hearing started coming back, but I had ringing in my ears for the rest of the day. The other gushy were OK because they were firing a 45 Colt and a 45 Auto. That was about 30 years ago and today I wear hearing aids.

    Oh and that barrel we rolled down the hill? We went down and got it and took all our trash with us. Too many people fail to do this and public areas where you can shoot keep getting closed down because of it.
     
  39. Less damaging than 357 Mag. from revolver. That was the cats meow back in the day. That being said hearing loss is a concern of course, I know I have my share.
     
  40. True the 357 Sig can put a ringin on your ears but I imagine it would be a real b.... for the BG standing 2 or 3 yards in front of the blast! My G32 and ears sit side by side on my night stand, that way when the officer ask me why I shot the guy I'll be able to hear him.
     
  41. It seems that some are affected by gun discharges more than others and surroundings are never the same but bottom line when a gun is fired for self defense everything else is secondary.
     
  42. I've got a G22 w/conversion barrel and run 90gr. slugs close to 1700fps. What this load does to varmints up to coyote size is incredible. It's literally inside/out.
     
  43. 90gr slugs would that be the Xtreme Defenders?
     
  44. Hornady and Sierra both offer them as components for reloading.
     
  45. That must be the rifle velocity I hear about.

    I did some testing and shot a 131 PC cast
    boolit at 1670 fps in a six inch LW conversion
    barrel for the g20, 800x powder. Everything
    looked fine, it was my third load and the hottest
    used, under an inch at 34 yards for three shots.

    All three loads shot good but the faster I went
    the better they shot, one day I will start it up
    again, also used some 163 boolits too.
     
  46. The coyotes (2) I shot with my 32 had a small entrance and a half dollar exit and went down instantly Ranger T 125 a large snapping turtle was eating a bass from my posn and he just exploded at about 15 yds same ammo. I did not have time for ear protection. The only time in my LE life we used ear protection was at the range and at all matches.
     
  47. The sig is my "rifle-pistol", fast with most, slow with none.

    Pros:
    From a 6" tube, loaded long @ 1.260" 125gr 357 mag bullets over a heavy charge of longshot clocked 1730fps, 180s have been worked up to 1350fps with blue dot in my g20. All have been accurate, recoil from the big long slide is soft even at max loads.

    Cons:
    I chase my sig brass like I do with 10mm brass which makes for more tedious range sessions.
     
  48. Once fired 357sig is pretty cheap. Not so much with 10mm. I hunt all my 10mm like they are 25c pieces, they almost are.
     
  49. I just picked up a gen 4 G32 and I must say I am thouroughly impressed. I waited years to buy this gun because of how many reviews I read about horrible recoil. Now I'm not sure why but I took both the 32 and my G19 out today to shoot side by side and shot the G32 better than the G19. I am glad I bought the G32 and wish I had bought it sooner. I don't find the recoil to be unmanageable at all and for the gain you get in ballistics it is worth it. I was going to use my G19 for cow but I think I have to use the G32 after shooting the two side by side.