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1st experience with 00 Buck and slugs

  1. Went to the range today with my 12 ga. '88 or '89 era 870 Express with an 18.5" Mossberg barrel, cylinder bore. I bought the barrel 20 or so years ago, never used it.

    I fired 15 rounds S&B 00, 10 rounds Winchester low recoil LE ranger slugs, 5 rounds Federal tru-ball slugs and 5 rounds Winchester 00 Buck of unknown vintage. All went "bang" and landed where intended, more or less.

    I started with "load one, shoot one." and then worked on follow-up shots. My primary focus was on safe and consistent weapons handling and getting somewhat objective observations on patterns and slug groupings.

    Overall I like the 870. The solid rubber recoil pad will get replaced with a 'modern' one. My technique needs some work but that's what I expected.
     
  2. You lost me right after the "put a Mossberg barrel on a Remington".
     
  3. Back then Mossberg made barrels to fit the 870, I think they still do. Less expensive than a Remington barrel if you could find one and we didn't have internet shopping.
     
  4. And how does the shoulder feel today? *s*
     
  5. Your a tough man .
     
  6. It's a labor of love
     
  7. My shoulder pocket is a little bruised and tender.

    I think next time I'll study up on proper mounting etc. before hitting the range.
     
  8. I wouldn't say that... Maybe "not exceptionally swift".
    I still call it a good day at the range because I had never patterned it with buckshot or shot slugs out of it.
    Now to make a couple modifications and do it again.
     
  9. It would be fortunate if that gun accepts that 3.5" shells.
     
  10. I'm content with 3" at the moment.
     
  11. Reminds me of some “test shots” we tried during self defense in and around vehicles. IMG_0066.JPG We did handgun rounds on the A pillar and I think a 00 buckshot and AR through the door panel
     
  12. One of the times I shot slugs out of a shotgun, we shot into a fallen tree to see how far it penetrated. It didn't go in as far as we thought, but it bored a hole that a woodpecker could start a nest with.
    I took a defensive shotgun class one time. We put 500 rounds of double ought buck through our guns over the course of a weekend. My Remington 870 with an 18 inch barrel lacks any sort of rear sight, so I tend to put my face down onto the stock. I looked and felt liked I'd tried to go a round with Tyson after that one.
     
  13. Shoulder that shotgun right cowboy! Every now and then when I shoot a case of shells thru a different shotgun than I normally shoot, I look like I have a "mouse" under my right eye.
     
  14. Y
    Yep. It's a project: Master the combat shotgun.
    I have a couple of other 12 gauges I'll be taking out soon. Including my Browning BPS high-cap.
     
  15. Why? Unless you are planning to go goose hunting?
    If you are loading up for humans 2.75 #1 buck or greater is the standard military and police load...

    3.5" is a miserable experience more than 2 or 3 at a time.. even 3 is not particularly fun
     
  16. You answered the question with your last sentence, ma'am. :D
     
  17. 3.5" mag shotgun loads have a recoil equivalent in the range of a .458 win mag Elephant gun.
     
  18. Yup... To me even worse than a 10 gauge
     
  19. 20 gauge is more than enough for defense against even the most determined feral recidivist humanoid predators. 20 pellets of #3 buck at 1200 fps will get the job done.
     
  20. I have a love hate relationship with shotguns. Working through the classes with a 14” shotgun trying to load and shoot during the “slug fest” gets your shoulder feeling it and reload speed up
     
  21. I have a 870 Express Compact I'll be shooting with slugs on Saturday, can't do #3 buck indoors. But it will be getting a folding stock to go with the 21" Rem-choke rifle sight barrel.

    At most "HD" ranges in my AO: 20 ga. is sufficient and most shot patterns will be like rifle shooting, one solid mass of 1 or 1-1/4 oz. lead.
     
  22. Realistically, as far as home defense goes, nothing says F U like a 12 Gauge shotgun loaded with 00 buckshot. At the Dynactus home, in the middle of nowhere, when a situation just hasn't felt right, I remember what I have reached for first.
     
  23. Some people in this thread need to take a Rob Haught or Tim Chandler class and learn how to properly mitigate shotgun recoil. Being able to tame the beast allows you to practice with it more.
     
  24. Last fall I bought an as new Mossberg 590, and had not had a chance to test fire it. Two weeks ago at the end of a pistol range session, at an indoor range (Shoot Point Blank/Carmel), I had three minutes of range time left and loaded six rounds of slugs into the shotgun, which was all I had brought with me.
    I fired all six from the shoulder as fast as I could safely do so.

    WOW, what a blast literally, the flame and noise coming out the business end of that beast was awesome, and as I placed it safely back into its pelican case and left the other range patrons, gave me some curious looks.

    The holes in my target were all I needed to see as this baby works perfectly and while I would not use slugs for home defence, whatever I do put in it if I ever need it, will I am sure be devastating on any threat.
     
  25. For defensive purposes you're not really getting any advantage with 3 " shells....

    2 3/4 inch 00 buck is fine; there are a number of low recoil options available that will give excellent results.
     
  26. If you wish to master the shotgun as a defensive tool, your best bet is to take an actual class that focuses on that skill set.
     
  27. Yeah, took a shotgun class from Rob. He was a member of my club in Ohio. The class was about 200 rounds of buckshot/slug in one day. It didn't bother me at all using this technique.


    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gq74aiXn1b4


    He is, by far, the best 870 operator I have ever seen.



    Here is the other member of my club in Ohio.


    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jncWh1BPzw
     
  28. Thanks for the links.
    I am looking at some low recoil buckshot. I noticed that the S&B and I think the Winchester buckshot rounds don't have plastic wads encasing the shot. Maybe that contributed to the barrel leading.
     
  29. The 3.5" 12 gage has probably ruined more than 1 shotgunner. Outside of geese too many ist time turkey hunters are sold one of the 3.5" monsters, being told they had to have one of these monsters to hunt turkey.
     
  30. I don't think it's the wad... But I'm no expert on these things..
    If you are worried about barrel leading, you could go with plated buckshot.. bit you will pay more
     
  31. I have a bunch of S&B 00 and #4 Buckshot. They just use a card wad with no shot cup, so yes, they do lead the bore. They do give a pretty good close range spread compared to shot cup shells.
     
  32. Yeah, you know it when it goes off!
     
  33. A Limbsaver recoil pad and the “push/pull” technique is your friend.
     
  34. ATA trapshooter since 1968 with way over 100,000 registered birds so I know shotguns. Fun time we shot from the hip, flurries, and many times we shot 1,000 targets in one day. You can adjust your stock to recoil straight back instead of back and up, get a Kick eeze pad and the main thing is add some weight. jmho
     
  35. If you are getting a sting, or worse yet a bruise, on your cheek, then your shotgun does not fit you correctly. The rear sight on a shotgun is your eyeball and you are not supposed to be looking at the front sight at all, ever. Your cheek should be down on the stock, but it needs to fit. Now granted, if you have DRS or a Red Dot, use them like intended, but fit is still important.

    Recoil mitigation is a combination of fit and technique. But if it does not fit, even good technique won't help. One of my assistant coaches for the HS Trap team broke her collarbone in her late teens. Julie Golob, yes one of the most famous female shooters, had a nasty bruise on her cheek after the first day of her first 3Gun match. They were both using shotguns that had not been properly fit to them. When I was training Marines on M4s, the ones that were hitting had a proper fit, the others did not. Once we got the fit down, those guys did great and had no more complaints of pain or bruises.

    If you want to be really good on the shotgun, regardless of the type of load and targets, get your shotgun fit. One reason I am a fan of Benelli and Stoeger...they have the fittiment from the factory with the ability to change all the angles to accommodate 99% of all shooters.
     
  36. The gun has no rear sight.
     
  37. I shot some S&B OO 12g. about 15 years ago. I bought a bunch cheap for 3-gun matches. Turns out the wads were actually compressed horse hair and they smelled awful upon shooting (think burning hair). I was almost banned from several clubs and disowned by my friends that season.
     
  38. FYI, that's the 'B' pillar.
    The 'A' pillar runs up the side of the windshield.
    The 'C' pillar runs up the side of the rear window.
    [emoji847]
     

  39. Sorry, I wasn’t referring to the hole in the B pillar, only in the door. I can dig up the A pillar test shots if you’re interested. Ah, found it.

    Blanchester vehicle shoot A pillar.jpg
     

  40. While true in total energy, the velocity of the recoil also has a lot to do with it.

    My 458, 404, 450-400 and 416 Rigby recoil much more violently due to the velocity.
     
  41. I'm a shotgun guy. The only time someone really tried to break into the house - he gained entry into the attached garage - he took off like a hare in the briar patch when I racked the 870 and swept the garage. (To this day I'm glad I didn't have to shoot anyone. It would not of been pleasant). Anyway, the response LEO thought my 870 leaning up in the corner was great!
     
  42. Tried this last week when I was at the range.

    Very useful. Thanks for posting.
     
  43. Remington Supercell Recoil Pad

    The hard rubber thing at the end of the stock on an 870 needs to be replaced -

    Been shooting shotguns for over 50 years and never had any issue - the 870 with an 18" barrel and a few boxes of slugs and buck shot left me bruised -

    Yes holding the gun correctly helps - but this solved the issue -



     
  44. Thanks. One of the parts I ordered for a LE trade-in 870 was the Supercell pad. I didn't need it but I might put a synthetic stock on my old 870 and install it.
     
  45. Any videos you recommend for fitting a shotgun?
     
  46. I have yet to sight in my red dot I put on my turkey gun. kicks the living snot of you after going thru a small box.
    I got some Winchester PDX 1 slug and buckshot combo loads for my house gun.
     
  47. Patrick Kelley. He is a good friend and does a good job on the basics of fit.


    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKVQiBFvCmg

    I'd suggest a different one for clay sports, but the principles are the same. Patrick also has the same info in an article.
     
  48. I started out hunting (as a teenager) first 12 ga I used once I grew into it was my dad's Ithaca 37 featherweight.
    Fortunately it was a natural fit for me. But it kicked like a mule with magnum bird shot and slugs.

    Through practice (trial and error) I found the right technique.
    Pheasant hunting light clothing so draw and clear my jacket place in shoulder hold itght. The shell was not too strong so that would work. If I was slightly off then could get a bruise.
    Slug deer hunting. Used the top of the teciever as rear front bead as front sight but wore heavy coat. Worked ok
    As adult practice at the range used a limbsaver slipo .
    Never used a cheekweld like a montecarlo stock so only potential bruising was by placing stock butt on the arm or other than in the shoulder.
    The video with the push pull technique is a very good idea. My technich for bird hunting I would rightly hold the fore stock pump mainly to control the reload pump and get read for another shot. Inadvertently this may have taken up some of the recoil but not to the extent of the push pull technique.
    Thanks
     
  49. Already felt like I knew nothing about proper shotgun technique, now I feel I know even less! Have an 870 I want to learn with, a home defense rig. It sounds like shotgun marksmanship is purely target focus and index?
     
  50. For the most part yes. But you can certainly shoot a shotgun like a rifle, especially if it has rifle sights on it. I have three barrels for my M2. A 24" with a front fiber optic, a 20" rifled slug barrel with Rifle sights and a 21" with rifle sights cut into the rib. That shotgun is mostly tactical, 3Gun and slug hunting. But if I am bird hunting or shooting clay sports, I shoot my Browning Golden Clays with a mid bead and front bead. If you have no desire to wing shoot, or shoot clay targets, express or ghost ring sights on a shotgun make a lot of sense. If you stick with the front bead only, then the fit has to be optimum to be on target.

    So for your 870, if you feel more comfortable with rifle type sights, have a gunsmith cut a dovetail in the rib and put a ghost ring or rear sight on it. A lot of guys use 10/22 rear sights on the rib. There are also rifle sights that clamp onto the rib and get you hi visibility fiber optics.