I had a box of these about a year ago. I tested them in low light and decided there was WAY too much flash. Very impressive but no good for defense. I gave them to a friend for his RIA 1911 for HD. I just got them back to test for expansion. This is through water jugs so go ahead and check out if you are a windshield/4layer denim/gel only person. Anyway out of a 5" 1911 these overexpanded and the core separated. This velocity seems to be way out of the realm of intended use. I tested a 230 grain standard pressure Golden Saber this morning from the same 5" 1911. It performed flawlessly. Like it was made for this gun. Everything stayed together and opened up nicely. So is a 185 grain +p for a 3"-3.5" gun? I have no idea what this is clocking from my gun but the bullet looks like it needs about a 100FPS reduction of velocity if not more. I feel like I read that the short barrel .45's (less than 4") shoot a standard pressure 230 grain best. That it stabilizes better than others in a short barrel for accuracy. It seems to me on one hand though that a 185+P would give max oomph (again from a short barrel) if muzzle energy was the goal. You tell me.