>16” barrel 9mm PCCs are silly (IMO).

Discussion in 'General Firearms Forum' started by -JCN-, Oct 7, 2018.

  1. -JCN-

    -JCN-

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    I picked up a 9mm Tavor SAR because they were on sale cheap and I wanted to practice some rifle drills on steel at 10-50 yards for the auditory feedback training... without destroying the targets or being pelted by lead fragments.

    My primary home defense rifle is a suppressed 5.56 Tavor SAR (likely to be supplanted by a 300 blk X95) which is the reason to train with the similar 9mm version.

    Checking velocities of 147gr 9mm Lawman out of the 16.5” barrel... pretty sad.

    C20DFC1A-BFD7-4AD6-BF01-0349314CA9A6.jpeg

    Compared to a G19...

    6AE125AD-67CF-4902-834B-FF1932E16DF5.jpeg

    Basically it’s like a 357 Sig pistol, or a G34 with extended barrel.

    9mm is great in duty handguns, but wasted IMO in pistol caliber carbines.

    I’ve tested long barrels and 357 Sig and 10mm... those would be great with extra bang for the barrel buck.

    But 9mm in a PCC? Good for training and gaming, but I wouldn’t use it for much else.

    IMO.

    EDITED TITLE TO REFLECT THE CURRENT SITUATION =>16” BARRELS.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2018
  2. ithaca_deerslayer

    ithaca_deerslayer

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    Caution. Low sample size.

    There might be loads that utilize the extra barrel length.

    Anyone know if WWII 9mm ammo was the same for both pistols and sub-machine guns? And if so, did the ammo at that time have the velocity change much between the formats?

    Dunno, just a caution about generalizing based on that load or other loads developed for pistols. There maybe could be loads developed for sub-machine gun or carbine length.
     
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  3. ronin.45

    ronin.45

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    That's alright, we are all wrong about something.

    Picking the slowest ammo and being disappointed in the velocity is kind of silly.
     
  4. Turk3196

    Turk3196

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    I’m curious as to what +P ammo would do out of the longer barrel. Definitely not impressed with the velocity of that round.
     
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  5. torchroadster

    torchroadster

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    If you don't mind - where were they on sale cheap?
     
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  6. 10or45

    10or45 NRA Benefactor Life Member

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    I'll take one in 357 sig or 10mm.:cowboy:
     
  7. nitesit(+ an e)

    nitesit(+ an e) Farmer, House Sitter and Cook

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    Your tac black nitrile gloves are very sporty.
     
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  8. gc70

    gc70

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    Some people do not buy pistol caliber carbines based on an expectation of ballistic improvement from a longer barrel. A lot of people buy pistol caliber carbines because they are more manageable than pistols or revolvers for a variety of users.
     
  9. China boy

    China boy

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    OP, nice guns. Very cool.

    I think you are right in certain respects. 9mm carbines are great for training on the cheap. Although I paid $500-1000 for my AR9 to save $2-4 on boxes of bullets.

    9mm carbines are also compatible with 9mm silencers which might appeal to some.

    I'm curious why MP5s came to be? Is there a sweet spot with 9mm and carbines that make them worth it?
     
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  10. ithaca_deerslayer

    ithaca_deerslayer

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  11. A6Gator

    A6Gator

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    Try it at a Steel Challenge match. You'll like it a LOT better...:supergrin:
     
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  12. rock185

    rock185

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    -JCN- I get it. I tell folks my Marlin Camp 9 is like a big .22, but kicks up more dirt when I miss. I don't consider my PCC useful for much other than plinking at the range, and chronographing ammo just to satisfy my curiosity about what this or that 9mm ammo might do in a longer barrel. My results with the Lawman 147 in the 16" barrel were a little better than yours, but still not exactly thunder and lightning. The Lawman 147 averaged 1143 fps in my carbine, 1106 fps in a 5.2" pistol barrel. Speer standard pressure 147 Gold dot averaged 1001 fps in the carbine, 1024 fps in a 4.7" pistols barrel. The Federal 147 +P HST only 950 fps in the carbine, and 1017 fps in a 5" pistol barrel. I think the factory 147 stuff is definitely optimized for pistol length barrels. The 115-125 grain 9mm ammo picks up more velocity in the longer barrel, especially with the +P,+P+ and NATO loads. All in all, I still enjoy shooting my 9mm plinker:cheers:
    Marlin 9N 001 (640x480).jpg
     
  13. ithaca_deerslayer

    ithaca_deerslayer

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    At this link they seem to be showing about 100 to 150 fps increase. But this is with ammo developed for pistols. What would the difference be if using specialty SMG ammo? I suspect maybe 200 fps as a guess.

    http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/9luger.html
     
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  14. TheDreadnought

    TheDreadnought

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    Except for the part where a PCC turns even an average shooter into a pro.

    Went to a competition shoot and with my pistol scored the bottom 1/3. When I used my Carbine I scored double the best score of the best shooter. It makes that much of a difference.

    PCCs are the best option for HD.
     
  15. SargeMO

    SargeMO

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    One would do well to remember that the 9mm in any platform is nothing more than the 38 Special Rimless Short.
     
  16. OXMYX

    OXMYX

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    I LIKE THAT MAG COUPLER

    DOM10676.jpg
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2018
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  17. OXMYX

    OXMYX

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  18. OXMYX

    OXMYX

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    AND YES, THE MAG IS A GRIP
    iur.jpg
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2018
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  19. MrGlock21

    MrGlock21

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    Furthermore, one would do well to remember that the 9mm in any platform is nothing more than a training tool in order to save money. In ammo terms, 9 is half the price of 556, roughly speaking.
     
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  20. Cambo

    Cambo

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    Oh what do they know? I'm sure they're just using those for training. 9mm hasn't ever killed anyone. Civilians, police, military all hate 9mms because it's so worthless.