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147 gr. flat point 9mm

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by Palouse, Mar 1, 2010.

  1. Palouse

    Palouse The Resistance Lifetime Member

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    It appears I have to learn things the hard way despite my friends giving me good, solid advice otherwise.

    I got overly excited about my new 550B and the ability to load my own 9mm ammo. How wonderful, I thought, that all this ammo just started appearing in bins aside my bright and shiny, blue machine. I couldn't help myself. You will imagine my dismay, then, when I discovered yesterday afternoon that I now have 500 rounds of ammo that I will not reliably cycle the slide on my XD.

    I called a friend of mine, who's been reloading for years and whose brain I did not pick because I thought, "How tough can it be?" and he was not sympathetic. He laughed at me and suggested that after I pull all 500 bullets with my impact bullet-puller that I'd likely not make that mistake again.
     
  2. rockabillyrider

    rockabillyrider

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    As Paul Harvey used to say, "And now for the rest of the story". What happened?
     

  3. PCJim

    PCJim Senior Member

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    You now know why you should always create small test batches of ammo for checking in your intended weapons. It is hard to overcome the anxiousness of creating that big batch, but patience must prevail.

    It "may" be possible for you to salvage having to break down those 500 rounds. If you can provide the recipe you used and the current COL of those rounds, it may be safely possible to seat the bullets a little bit deeper to gain some additional pressure, at least enough to cycle the slide and keep from having to shoot your XD as an awkward single shot.
     
  4. Palouse

    Palouse The Resistance Lifetime Member

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    I started at the low end of the load spectrum, and there's not enough poop in the loads to cycle the slide. Not with any consistency, anyway. Once I got off three shots in a row, and twice with two.


    The first question my friend asked is why I didn't start with a small batch. :embarassed: Something about a kid in a candy store was my reply.

    Thank you for any and all assistance. This data is from the www.hodgdon.com website.
    3.7 grains of WSF (starting load--4.1 gr. on the high end)
    147 grain lead flat point
    CCI small pistol
    1.155" COL (Hodgdon had 1.169 as the COL, but at that length, the cartridges wouldn't fit in my chamber very well)

    I actually thought about doing this, but I've read several sources that state that seating the bullets on 9mm too deeply can really spike the pressure. That made me nervous, noting I'd already gone from 1.169 to 1.155, and being new to this gave me pause.

    I will say one thing, though: they were easy to shoot, and they were accurate.
     
  5. D. Manley

    D. Manley

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    FWIW, I seat 147 grain FP bullets to 1.130 and 3.7 grains WSF will cycle my G-34 with no problems at all and is very accurate.
     
  6. Palouse

    Palouse The Resistance Lifetime Member

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    Thanks very much. Have you run them over a chronograph? And those are lead bullets, right?
     
  7. D. Manley

    D. Manley

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    No, I have not. You may be interested to know that Atlanta Arms "Team Glock" load is a 147 grain Zero JHP loaded at 1.10 OAL in new Starline brass over what "appears" to be WSF. I've seen it posted by some that in fact, it is the non-canister version of WSF. This load runs around 920 FPS out of a G-34 and only slightly less out of a M&P Pro. I've shot from 3.7 to 4.0 under 147's and all shot well and no notable differences in group size. The 3.7 grain load is a very good one for me...have a stack loaded right beside me as I type.

    No, these are NOT lead that I'm using...only plated or jacketed exclusively.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2010
  8. njl

    njl Crusty Member

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    1.169" is the max COAL for 9mm. You could certainly seat those deeper.

    But, I have an even easier solution. You say they will cycle the slide, just not reliably every time. So, the simplest, quickest solution...buy an aftermarket recoil rod and reduced power recoil spring. Just taking 2-3lbs off the recoil spring weight might solve the problem.

    But I thought everyone knew to make a small batch (10-50 at most) when developing a new load. Now you do too.
     
  9. HAMMERHEAD

    HAMMERHEAD

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    Can you get a lighter recoil spring for your XD?
    It sounds like your close to functioning, if it were a Glock, you could use a 15 or even a 13 pound recoil spring to get them to cycle. I don't know if they're available for XD's.
     
  10. fredj338

    fredj338

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    Who's 147grLFP?
    Well, lessoned learned, I hope. Your load is at the middle of the pressure range, depending on whos data & OAL. Seating them to 1.350"-1.140" will likely give you enough add'l. pressure to get them to function. Next time work in 10rd groups, up the charge 0.1gr at a time to just under book max (if you want to go that hgh). Shoot them in order & note accuracy, reliability, powder combustion (does it all burn) & any pressure signs.
    Lyman seats theirs pretty deep (1.058") & goes 3.9gr max. I've loaded that charge under a RCBS 147gr to 1.110" & it runs fine in my guns, about 975fps in a G17.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2010
  11. wavetrain75

    wavetrain75 Useless Member

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    .....
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2010
  12. PCJim

    PCJim Senior Member

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    Palouse, you've been given some good information above so I won't go try to add additional data to that given. If it was me, knowing that Lyman suggests a COL (per Fred's post) of 1.110" with their recommended WSF charge, I would take 10 rounds and attempt to reseat the bullet to 1.145". Test these ten rounds to see if they will reliably cycle your XD, being sure to capture the ejected brass so that you can look for pressure signs. If no pressure signs, take another 10 rounds and reseat to 1.135". You get the picture - do this methodically, always watching for any pressure sign and you'll find a point where you will be able to use those rounds.

    There is the possibility, depending upon how you finished off the original crimp process, that you may have begun to apply a roll crimp on the bullets. Watch to see if you are adversely deforming the bullet or case mouth as you attempt to seat the bullets deeper. If you are, then you might want to stop the process. The 9mm needs the case mouth for proper headspacing, so it must be kept intact and useable.

    I'm sure others may have additional input. This is what I would be looking for in trying to salvage those rounds.
     
  13. GioaJack

    GioaJack Conifer Jack

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    Throw 'em in a fire and watch 'em pop... it's great fun. (Less work too.)

    Jack
     
  14. Palouse

    Palouse The Resistance Lifetime Member

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    Indeed I have.

    The bullets I'm using are from Tru-Cast.

    Thank you for the advice.
     
  15. fredj338

    fredj338

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    THose look closer to the lyman in profile. I would take PCJim's advice & seat 0.1" deeper w/ even 5rds, then 0.1" deeper again. I would not go below 1.120" to be safe. You'll probably find a sweet spot around 1.135".
     
  16. chris in va

    chris in va

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    Don't feel bad, I did the same exact thing. So flippin excited to crank out my new rounds I discovered to my dismay they were keyholing like crazy. Hours of whacking that kinetic puller is not something I plan to do anymore.

    BTW my Lyman manual has their 147gr lead FP at 1.058"OAL. Profile is similar to the one pictured in your link. Their 147gr TMJ FP is 1.115"OAL.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2010
  17. Palouse

    Palouse The Resistance Lifetime Member

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    Believe me, I gave it thought. :supergrin:
     
  18. Palouse

    Palouse The Resistance Lifetime Member

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    I think part of my problem stems from the fact that I do reload shotshells. With shotshells, you use the load exactly as published. No fiddle putzing around powder amounts, different wads, shot charge, etc. You can certainly use different loads as published, but when you do load for a particular recipe, you use what they tell you. I've never had a problem with a load not cycling my Auto-5.

    Years ago I tried my hand with a single stage Hornady (which I still have) loading for a Winchester Model 70 in 270 that I no longer have. I think I loaded somewhere along the lines of a dozen cartridges before I became occupied with something else. The loads weren't particularly accurate, but I didn't have any other issues. Loading for a semi-auto pistol is in an entirely different league...at least it is for me. I realize it's not rocket surgery, but it's made me scratch my head a time or two thus far.

    I gave some thought to a new recoil spring/rod, but I started by seating the bullet deeper by 0.01", which I did last night, and I'll see what that does. I'm heading to the range this afternoon, so we'll what happens. Thank you to everyone for the sage advice.

    ETA: Oh, and I'm buying a Lyman manual today if I can find one locally. My Barnes, Hornady and Sierra manuals aren't the greatest with regard to what I'm doing with the lead 147 grainers.
     
  19. PCJim

    PCJim Senior Member

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    Palouse, please report back your progress in determining what COL finally works in cycling your XD.

    On the thought of replacing your recoil guide/rod, I personally frown on doing so. Personally, I believe it is a better philosophy to adjust the ammo to the weapon, instead of the weapon to the ammo. If the latter, and you need to shoot some factory ammo thru your XD, you would be exerting a lot of unnecessary wear on the weapon.....
     
  20. W4CNG

    W4CNG

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    Years ago I got a batch of 147 gr flatpoints and loaded them up and tried to shoot them out of my Taurus PT-99. They keyholed at 7 yards. Cycled the gun fine but could not get them to shoot straight. Switched to 115GR FMJ and all is well including all of my Glocks.