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Tnt, have you gotten to look at Black Hills Honeybadger (100gr, 9mm+p)?
No plans to test or even purchase that product...but thank you for inquiring. The bullet appears to be the Lehigh Xtreme Defender or Penetrator......or a deviation of either, and we already know those capabilities. Just another company reloading the Lehigh copper bullet. I can only imagine the hours of internal meetings necessary to come up with the "Honeybadger" branding.

I watched a couple of YT videos on this, one from Gun Talk Media and the other from Guns and Ammo. All told, 7 minutes of gibberish and not much data or helpful visuals.
 

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No plans to test or even purchase that product...but thank you for inquiring. The bullet appears to be the Lehigh Xtreme Defender or Penetrator......or a deviation of either, and we already know those capabilities. Just another company reloading the Lehigh copper bullet. I can only imagine the hours of internal meetings necessary to come up with the "Honeybadger" branding.

I watched a couple of YT videos on this, one from Gun Talk Media and the other from Guns and Ammo. All told, 7 minutes of gibberish and not much data or helpful visuals. Disappointing, but I'm not surprised at the quality of "professional" firearms media these days.
its a flavor of the defender family. But I think your 90gr Underwood video covers it well. Its accuracy and low recoil impressed me, so its my carry choice.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
thanks tnoutdoors9 I will stay with 124 +p gd when I carry my 43x do you still carry 147 hst in your 19 in the winter , my gen 4 19 is my edc year round I was thinking 124 +p gd in summer and 147 hst in winter
 

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Critical duty was designated for LE in mind however I don’t know which federal agencies are actually currently using it.

It’s not a knock against Critical Duty. It’s just that my fed friends have told me how their duty ammo keeps changing. My friend who works for a three letter agency has had his ammo change several times in less than 3 years from 147 gold dots, 124+p gold dots, and various HST rounds. I don’t remember the order or what he carries now.
 

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It didn’t work well with my 43. Went to the 115g.
 
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I'm not really a fan of the Critical Duty line up. Doubly so in barrel lengths below 4". There are far better choices, IMO.

With the current craziness, I can understand people carrying what they have. I had been toying with switching my 9mm choice to HST. I'll just keep my Gold Dot that has been vetted in my guns and that I bought in bulk prior to the current insanity.

I do admit I am biased to a degree in regards to Hornady. A personal, bad experience with the Critical Duty round.
 

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I never warmed up to this round as I don't plan on shooting in the same situations as law enforcement does (i.e. windshields, other barriers) . I'll take original 9mm Gold Dot 124gr. / 147gr. or Federal HTS 124gr. / 147gr. and be happier.
 

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I never warmed up to this round as I don't plan on shooting in the same situations as law enforcement does (i.e. windshields, other barriers) . I'll take original 9mm Gold Dot 124gr. / 147gr. or Federal HTS 124gr. / 147gr. and be happier.
Those other rounds you mentioned are LE rounds designed with similar parameters in mind. If its bonded or belted, it keeps the copper on the lead. Copper is barrier blind.

that said, they have all shown to work very well. GD and HST are mentioned in many other threads throughout GT
 

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I carry HST 124+P in my G45 and IMI 115 Di Cut in my G43X. I am not sure how the IMI will perform, but what I have read tells me this is a good round.
 

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I never warmed up to this round as I don't plan on shooting in the same situations as law enforcement does (i.e. windshields, other barriers) . I'll take original 9mm Gold Dot 124gr. / 147gr. or Federal HTS 124gr. / 147gr. and be happier.
Those rounds do just fine with barriers, especially Gold Dot.

And yes, civilians can encounter barrier situations. It happens.
 

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And yes, civilians can encounter barrier situations. It happens.
At present time I'm carrying a non-bonded JHP in my pistols with the second magazine loaded with bonded JHP for just this reason. Both rounds have being thoroughly vetted in every CCW pistol.
 

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I like hornady CD 135 +p alot. But this time last year I switched to this HB (name licensed from Q) For the 26/43/365/HC/Shield types it is a great option and my HC 13+1 total weight at 100gr is so much lighter than 135 or 147gr. Shootability plus carry weight make it a great option for ~3 inch 9mm. With 19 or 17 sized pistols you get even more velocity.
 

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The Critical Duty is my least favorite of the good LE rounds. It doesn’t expand much, but doesn’t make up for the lack of expansion in better penetration. It’s “barrier blind”, but so are others. It got the FBI contract, but that doesn’t hold a lot of weight, by itself. I’ve read the FBI uses sub-guns in 9mm. I don’t. I also don’t know what politics were involved in the decision. I do know very few FBI Agents fire their weapon, compared to other agencies. (Obviously, I’m not talking about HRT or other specialty units).

I would rather have Remington Golden Saber Bonded, Winchester Ranger Bonded, Federal Tactical Bonded, Federal HST, Speer Gold Dots, before I would choose Hornsby Critical Duty. With that said, several agencies around me have gone with it and I wouldn’t be upset with carrying it.
 
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I have not shot it or chronographed through anything shorter than a G19; going with Hornady's suggested protocol on barrel length. It is best suited in a 4.5 or longer barrel as ME creeps up to 400 ft lbs, plus momentum and power factor would be a bit higher than even 124 +P at 1200 fps. If I carried a G17 or G34 type of 9mm, 135 +P Critical Duty would be one of my top choices. In off-camera tests from the G19 past few years velocities have dropped to 1080 fps on average, which I feel might induce marginal expansion. Due to these inconsistencies with multiple production lots I've dropped Critical Duty from my EDC rotation.

As for Hornady's fallback option of the Critical Defense, I would carry their 124 XTP at std pressure over that, or 124 std pressure Gold Dot or HST. If you can handle recoil out of the 3.4" barrel, the +P variations of those three is good. I almost forgot.....the 124 +P Critical Duty as a contender.
Handle the recoil of a 9mm??? Whaaaaaaaaat???? (With my best Hank Hill impersonation)

Aren’t there far better choices than this round in general?
 
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What do you mean by “sub-gun”

They are carrying 19M. Before that I believe it was the M11(P228). Both highly respected firearms.
Sub-guns:

Sub-Gun-8-e1584560494694.jpeg


Not referring to the sidearm/handguns they carry all the time.

ETA: This is an internet pull for examples of sub-guns, not necessarily what the FBI uses.
 
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Sub-guns:

View attachment 854610

Not referring to the sidearm/handguns they carry all the time.

ETA: This is an internet pull for examples of sub-guns, not necessarily what the FBI uses.
Traditional, Georgia, SAs/1811 types are M4/19M trained. The FBI is an oddman out with their own academy. So they may be training to pistol caliber close quarter stuff. That said, the 19M with 135+P CD passes the tests. Longer barrels will only help.
 

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It’s my issued duty load for work.

I have chrono’d it out of my G17 and G26. I don’t recall off the top of my head what the results were, but if I can find it in my notes I’ll post it.
Its very good. I use it in every defense pistol and revolver.
 
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