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13 round Advantage Arms 17-22 Mag

Discussion in 'General Glocking' started by jgrider, Feb 22, 2009.

  1. ViperR

    ViperR

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    OK, bought some goodies from HomeDepot. A 3/8 od 1/4 L nylon spacer (hole was .177, but will drill this larger), a 5/16 dia 2" L nylon bolt that has about 1 1/2 non-threaded shank and a 1/8 dia tension pin. Cost me $1.50. The 3/8 spacer fits perfect in the spring channel of the mag and the 5/16 bolt guides the spring perfectly. I inserted the spacer, spring and follower in the mag and started loading rounds. It held 12 & the 13th almost fit, so I sanded the spacer down to a 3/16 L and got 13 in there with just your typical extra push down of the follower.
    The spring compresses to 7/8, so I did some math and the spring guide part of the plug should be approx 11/32 and will get the spring compressed to around 1" with the followers spring guide not touching the plugs spring guide.
    I reamed and threaded the id of the spacer for the thread end of the bolt, twisted the bolt in nice & tight, cut the protruding thread from the bottom of the spacer, cut the top of the bolt so 11/32 L is left, tapered the bolt like the original plug for proper spring guiding. I then drilled a slightly smaller than 1/8 hole for the tension pin in the bottom of the assembled plug, pressed it in and cut it to length like the original plug.
    Assembled all the mag components and made sure 13 still fit and compressed the spring properly. Flipped the rounds out with my thumb to make sure the follower rose correctly. All is well.
    There seems to be OK spring tension near the last rounds, so I will test it next range time and let you all know. I'll get pics up today.
    One thing I should mention, there were no mods done to the original AA mag parts, so it can be returned to its original factory state if needed. If more than 13 are desired, well that's a differnt story and mods to the follower would be in order. I'm fine with 13. Also, the extra 3 rounds are not seen in the mag body viewing slot, but the slot can be dremeled longer if you take care not to cut into the guide rails just behind and close to the viewing slot.
     
  2. ViperR

    ViperR

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    Alrighty then. Decided to save some steps and save a whopping 64 cents by using only the bolt on another plug. The head of the bolt is 3/16 L as needed (as the spacer needed to be), so I sanded down the hex head to get it fairly round, chucked it in my drill and spun & sanded to get it nice & round and 3/8 dia. Cut the shank to 11/32 & tapered it, drilled my hole for base-plate indexing pin, inseted pin & cut to its proper .140" length. Works as good as my 1st plug and alot easier than reaming & tapping the spacer and its all one piece.
    Pics will come soon.
     

  3. ViperR

    ViperR

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    OK, here a some pics. Got ahead of myself sanding before taking shots of the bolt, so the 1st pic is the bolt with the hex-head turned down and the threaded part cut off. 2nd is the shaft cut to length, tapered and the floor plate pin installed. Nylon is so great to work with. It cuts & sands easily, but is tough and has some natural lube properties to it for the spring to glide on.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2010
  4. ViperR

    ViperR

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    OK, went to the range Sat eve and tried the modded mag with all the different types of ammo that works in my AA kit. That last 13th round never went into battery correctly because the mag spring was way too weak with the shorter plug. When I manually fed the final round to try to test the "last round hold open", it failed to lock the slide back about 50% of the time. So, I need a longer & stouter spring, which is going to be the one from SigPower.com. The only thing that concerns me is if SP's spring is longer and has thicker coils the fully compressed length might be over the 7/8" and I'll have to re-do the plug.
    Anyway, this experiment only cost me a couple of bucks and about an hour of my time. Well spent so we all know now. BTW, the SP's plug looks alot shorter than mine, so I bet his spring is stouter if his claim of working and fitting the AA mag to 13 is correct.
     
  5. Flipz

    Flipz

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    You did a great job with the plug you made. It definitley looks like it can be shortened a little bit more too. Combine it with Jeff's spring and I bet it will be feeding the last round and locking back 100%. Great job. You may need to start your own website now and sell them yourself. Just an idea.

    On a side note,
    Went to the range yesterday and shot 300 Rem GB's through my AA kit. It fired 99.95% of the time with 1 stovepipe. And I blame that on an underpowered round. I had atleast 5 people come up to me to ask about it. I told them to go ahead and fire off a couple mags each. They each turned towards me after shooting it with a big grin on their faces. I let all of them shoot my Sig 522 also and they all loved it. Each one of them said that they had forgotten how much fun .22lr can be.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2010
  6. ViperR

    ViperR

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    Hey Flipz,
    Thanks for the kind words and encouragement. So easy to work with the nylon and most plugs in .22 are made of some sort of platic (ABS, nylon, etc.) or aluminum. I found out that Wolfsprings.com makes a long 40" spring for tube fed .22 rifles that goes for about $6 or so. I would have plenty of stock to make a bunch of longer springs and combined with the home-made plugs, it would be so much less than Sigs $5 plug/$6 spring (plus shipping) for one mag. I have three mags and read here that some guys even have TEN mags for their AA kits.
    Worth the try, eh?
     
  7. Flipz

    Flipz

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    So I was cleaning my Black Dog Machine .22lr AR Conversion Mags last night that I use with my Sig 522 and I noticed something very interesting.

    I noticed that the plug for the BDM mags were just about the same width as the AA plugs, just a hell of a lot shorter. So I took one of the BDM plugs and tried it out in one of my AA 17 mags. It fit great. I loaded up a mag and I could fit 12 rounds in, almost 13. I imagine that if I were to sand off a little bit of the top of the plug I could fit 13 in the AA mag with no problem. I didnt really look at the AA follower when I had the mag apart but I bet there is enough room to cut it shorter also. So, Im betting that if I use the BDM plug shaved down just a bit and cut a bit off the AA follower I could probably get 14 rounds in the AA mag with that combo.

    Im gonna test it out this weekend and I'll let you know.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2010
  8. ViperR

    ViperR

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    One thing you have to make sure of is you have to have approx "1/2 the dia of a cartridge" in extra push down play or you won't be able to seat the mag in all the way. There is part of the slide that has the stripping rail that compresses the top cartridge down, so the top round pops up when the slide is open and the rail will strip the top round off into the chamber.
    Ran into this problem when I 1st made the plug and 13 just fit in the mag, but the mag would not lock into the frame. Took 1 round out and it worked. Made the plug shorter so I had about 1/2 the dia of the .22 round extra play and the slide inserted fine.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2010
  9. hrt4me

    hrt4me Millennium Member

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    Thanks for all the good information. ViperR and Flipz, do you have pics of your latest mods?
     
  10. ViperR

    ViperR

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    No updates as far as pics go. Just the ones I posted on page one. Still trying to find that sweet spot with plug dimensions.
     
  11. Flipz

    Flipz

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    Thanks for the tip.

    I took one of my AA 17-22 mags modified with the BDM plug and did the following:
    I loaded up 12 rounds and did a test by inserting the mag and making sure it locked in place without any excessive force. Then I cycled the slide by hand as fast as I could. All 12 rounds fed and ejected properly, and the slide locked back after the last round was ejected. There were no mods done to the follower or spring, both are stock.

    Without any further mods, 12 rounds is the max capacity in a AA 17-22 magazine using the BDM plug.

    I think its possible to increase the capacity more by shaving down the BDM plug and trimming down the follower. I think that if one were to make these additional mods then a longer/stiffer spring would be needed to make the magazine feed reliably.

    I will be going to the range this weekend to make sure that my AA 17-22 magazines with the BDM plugs feed correctly during shooting and lock the slide back after the last round is ejected. Hopefully I will have the same result as when I hand cycled it. The addition of 2 extra rounds shouldnt cause any feeding issues because of the spring length in my opinion. But you never know until you try.

    I'll report back after my range trip this weekend and let you know the results.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2010
  12. Flipz

    Flipz

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    By the way, Im also going to try shaving down the radius of the BDM plugs so that they will fit in my P226 conversion kit mags. Its just a slightly tighter fit then the AA mags. If it works then I wont have to buy the SP plugs for the Sig conversion mags. All I'll need to get is the new springs and the new followers.
     
  13. artcarney

    artcarney

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    CCI Mini-Mags function perfectly in my AA kit for my G30SF.

    Also, the mags hold only 10 rounds because the kits are made in California and out there that's all the law will allow now for civilians.
     
  14. Flipz

    Flipz

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    Thats not really correct. Just because they manufacture in California which has a 10 round limit on magazines doesnt mean they cant manufacture and ship 11+ round magazines to other states that allow them. If they were to make 11+ round mags they just wouldnt be able to be sold in California, BUT, they could be shipped from California to any state that allows them.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2010
  15. artcarney

    artcarney

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    From their FAQ located on AA web site:

    Q Are you going to offer High Cap Magazines?
    A NO. High cap magazines are illegal to manufacture or sell in California, which is where our factory is located.
     
  16. hogarth

    hogarth

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    +1, similar law here in MD, where magazines holding more than 20 rds cannot be bought, sold, or manufactured. However, for MD residents, you CAN drive to VA, PA, etc, buy mags holding more, and bring them back legally. Go figure.

    Seems like some people on here are obsessed and putting in a lot of work to get a couple of extra rounds into a magazine for .22s. Personally, I don't see the point (unless for some specific drills where you want the same capacity as its full-caliber brother), as I don't plan to defend my life with it, but to each their own.
     
  17. TonyT

    TonyT

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    I use the Ciener unit on my G-17 with the Ciener 15 round magazines. I don't know if the Ciener mags would work with the Advantage Arms unit. The only problem with Ciener is the absolute lack of any customer service. I have found that my Ciener unit functions reliably with Remington Target SV and the Fedearl HV HP copper plated/wshed bulk pack ammo. With remington Golden bullets my unit has ca one feeding failure per magazine load.
     
  18. ViperR

    ViperR

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    The AA mags are a pain to reload especially without the mag-loader, so less frequent loadings are desired. Also, getting it close to centerfire specs like you said is important. Not really any different than installing a base extension +rounds that are offered for centerfire mags. 10 round laws are a bummer and if we can mod, we will do it. Lots of things are discovered by spending time doing so.
    SigPower makes mods for the 10 mags to increase to 15 in the Sig .22 kits. Bet those are selling well in states that don't have the 10 rule.
     
  19. ViperR

    ViperR

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  20. ViperR

    ViperR

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    BTW, forget the pic of my posted nylon plug above. It has been modded to look like the one on SigPower's site. I don't have my cam here, so below is the pic from SP's site. Guide length is 1/8" and seating rim length is a hair over 1/16" (let's say 3/32"). It's a tiny pic, but you get the idea.