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100% Failure Rate for 1st Round of Female Marine Infantry Recruits

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by Big Bird, Nov 13, 2012.

  1. AK_Stick

    AK_Stick AAAMAD

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    Have you gone to combat, and/or done the job so that your argument on what rigors/physical exertion it requires is based upon something more than a "idea" from a paper you read?

    Because several of your remarks about what kind of requirements combat has, and how some of those requirements for service are silly strike me as those of someone who does not have any experience in the matter.
     
  2. tsmo1066

    tsmo1066 Happy Smiley

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    I served with the Army from 1987 to 1991, and spent two of those years with the Third Infantry Division stationed in Bamberg, FRG. My MOS was 13M, but I have cross-trained with Infantry units from both 3rd ID and 2nd ACR for border patrol support activities and completed every element of 11B training necessary to qualify for and serve on a Bradley dismount team. I am no stranger to extended marches with a full combat infantry load (plus a little as I humped the SAW on most such marches).

    While serving in 3rd ID I also completed a Nijmegan march for fun in the military category, along with about 200 other 3rd ID soldiers who all did the march under full combat load (as opposed to the sissy 22 pound pack that is required to qualify for the 'military' category) Of the 200 infantry and other 3rd ID soldiers that started that march under full load, only 60 of us completed the entire march (over half of the 11Bs washed out as well).

    No, I have never deployed into combat as an infantryman, but yes, I am more than familiar with the physical requirements of the job.

    And your own experience as a combat infantryman consists of?
     

  3. AK_Stick

    AK_Stick AAAMAD

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    As an infantryman? None. I was pulled off the only deployment I'd have gotten the 11b mos for.

    As far as combat, I've gone down range to Iraq twice, and done several other deployments in non combat/non peace time areas. I'm currently a platoon sgt, and part of my job is the rescue/recovery of downed helicopters and their crews.

    Females constantly fail the everyday standard for mechanics/crewchiefs, and can't perform several of our emergency procedures. If you expect me to believe that a woman who can't drag a unconscious crewmember from a downed helo could don a ruck and hump like the boys your high.

    They have a purpose in the .mil, but just because Israel uses them, and the Russians did when they were facing total annihilation, does not mean that they should be part of our infantry. Your comparing apples to lug nuts.
     
  4. AK_Stick

    AK_Stick AAAMAD

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    You seem to be falling into the exact same trap as DevilDog fell into last week.

    Your trying to argue about how things work in the .mil based on your understanding of how things were 20+ years ago.

    We've been at war for over a decade now. Our forces are more fit, more lethal, and better trained to bring the hurt than ever before. Of all that, perhaps ask yourself, of all the guys championing women in the combat arms, why is it never the guys who've gone down range and lead/followed/fought with women?
     
  5. Psychman

    Psychman NRA Life Member

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    So two women got injured. So what? The next 2 may make it through. I am all for them trying if they have the motivation to do so. Debating it here doesn't mean squat.
     
  6. tsmo1066

    tsmo1066 Happy Smiley

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    That's BS. Every veteran knows that back when he was in the service, the combat forces were made up of real men and that these days it's all a bunch of Momma's boys.

    Really...ask any of us!

    :supergrin:

    Seriously, though, fair point about the modern service.
     
  7. Hailstorm

    Hailstorm Boom Shacka

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    I say make a new unit. Just call it"That time of the Month" . So, if it's that time of the month. Someone is gonna die.
     
  8. AK_Stick

    AK_Stick AAAMAD

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    Hahaha, it's always real men, they just keep getting younger. In the "old guy" at 27.

    But I did want to add, that was in no way saying your service was any less because it was at a different time. Simple just that how we do it today is different.
     
  9. Paul7

    Paul7

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    Wonder how many men will die from this insanity, from allowing unqualified 'soldiers' in. We need the most qualified people, period.

    Reminds me of a funny story, my chiropractor is from Canada and wanted to be a pilot in the military. He was one of the top rated pilot prospects in Canada, but that was the time they brought in affirmative action so he said screw it. The woman who took his place wrecked the plane her first flight.
     
  10. Spiffums

    Spiffums I.C.P.

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    They should have joined the Air Force........they let girls be snipers and everything.
     
  11. Peace Warrior

    Peace Warrior Am Yisrael Chai CLM

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    IIRC, there have only been two women that have ever passed fighter school in the Canadian Air Force. My info is a tad dated, but if what you say is true, the first two female pilots to ever make it through training/flight school were both assigned to fighter squadrons with no such crash. The second one to make it through did have a mishap during training when she was attempting a difficult landing, but her instructor took over at the controls and saved the plane. She later nailed the landing on a subsequent try.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2012
  12. F14Scott

    F14Scott Luggage CLM

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    I quote myself from another thread on the same topic:

    My direct experience with females was limited, as the deployed squadron I served in was forward deployed in Japan and not gender integrated. As a flight student at the RAG (FRS) and then later as an active duty guy at a reserve squadron, though, I worked with female support NCOs (maintainers, admin, etc.).

    First, I'll just make some observations:

    Women are able to pilot just as well as men. They fly the jets just fine.

    Women cannot do all the physical jobs an officer/aircrew member might need to do as well as men. Dragging your unconscious RIO out of a burning jet. Carrying your injured shipmate up a couple of ladderwells. Running a half mile in 40 lbs. of flight gear to get to concealment after an ejection. I was one of the skinniest officers in my squadron at 5'11", 165 lbs., but I could carry my biggest pilot (6'4", 240 lbs. up a flight of stairs and the length of the flight deck, if I needed to. I would bet that not a single female aviator flying today could do that.

    Women require accommodations in space limited ships. A few women will share a head, forcing dozens of men to share one fewer head. Same with berthing.

    I do not know how gyno issues impact the flight and watch schedule. I imagine they have some negative impact. ETA - I wonder what the overall FMC rate (fully mission capable) for men v. women is, and what the overall cost for health care, men v. women, is.

    Women get pregnant and must go home (but not get penalized for it on their FITREPS), both accidentally and on purpose. Men must pick up the slack.

    Women cause morale and discipline problems. They quickly recognize the power sexuality holds over the men and use that status to pass off work, enjoy favors, and stir up drama for entertainment. ETA- They also cause the wives at home considerable worry that is not present with an all male crew.

    Women trigger a protective instinct in men that, I believe, would be disastrous in a POW situation. The women would be used as instruments of torture on the men. The women would almost certainly face rape and pregnancy by their captors. Ugh.

    Women can't get drafted. A small part of me always felt (and still feels) that the military was the provenance of men because defending the country falls to the men.

    I don't believe any of these inequalities can ever be overcome. Permanent inequalities degrade morale, lower combat effectiveness, and generally mean a less effective and/or more expensive military.

    How much is it worth to America, by equally seating women where they are not true equals (physically or by their required treatment), to pretend they are the same?
     
  13. USMCgs3

    USMCgs3

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    I don't see how they didn't pass infantry school if they passed basic training. But they do their bootcamp at Paris island so idk what that's like. To me Infantry school was more of the same as bootcamp during phase 2. Now Machine gunner school was pretty challenging for me being only 5'5 130 lbs, but it was only 3 weeks long with the 20k hump with the M2 receiver on top of my pack being the hardest part. But even then we switched offs between the barrel, tripod and receiver. In the end if you have the heart to be a Infantry Marine you will make it, otherwise you will get yourself hurt an end up in motor t like my friend lol.


    Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine
     
  14. pizza_pablo

    pizza_pablo USN Retired

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    Just like fighter pilots.... :upeyes:
     
  15. AK_Stick

    AK_Stick AAAMAD

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    Reading has never been one of your strong suites eh?
     
  16. F14Scott

    F14Scott Luggage CLM

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    BTW, I knew Kara. She was a friend of mine, a class behind me at the RAG in 1992. She was a great person and a fine officer. She would easily be the exception to many of the generalities about women others and I have posted. She was smart, very big and strong, funny, humble, and she could dish it out as well as she could take it. Just a great addition to the ready room.

    She was also a decent pilot, with a lot of hours in the EA-6B. What she wasn't, though, was a up-to-par Tomcat pilot at the boat (the very hardest flying gig in naval aviation). Her instructors and all of us students knew it, just as we all knew about all of our own strengths and weaknesses. The instructors tried to DQ her, but the senior navy leadership, under political pressure to put women in the cockpit, gave her extra remediation and training until she managed to scrape over the bar. If she were a man, she would have washed out, as many of her peers did.

    On that day behind Lincoln, the Navy's attempt at gender integration killed her and almost killed her RIO, who ejected 0.4 seconds before she did and lived. She had skidded a wrapped-up start at her pass, blanking and snuffing her port motor, and had then frozen at the controls, failing to execute the proper single-engine waveoff flyaway procedures. She was in over her head in that jet.

    She was a great gal, and the world is a lesser place without her.
     
  17. CBennett

    CBennett

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    Ive ALWAYS thought that for ANY combat MOS that the Physical requirements should be EXACTLY THE SAME...no womens set and mens set....you can either pass them or you cant..if you cant you get recycled or have the option to go to a new NON-combat MOS or get a general discharge that can become honorable after a certain time. But if you cant meet 1 set of standards GT*O!
     
  18. pizza_pablo

    pizza_pablo USN Retired

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    JERK! :tongueout:
    I didn't go thru the entire thread. Just threw in my 2 pennies and split. :wavey:
     
  19. AngryPanda

    AngryPanda Is he a troll?

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    I can think of several women I would rather take to a fight than most of you jokes.
     
  20. fnfalman

    fnfalman Chicks Dig It

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    So...two chicks out of two chicks that made the attempt didn't make it. Big deal.