10 mm Mag vs. .41 Mag

Discussion in 'Caliber Corner' started by hogfish, Jan 13, 2017.

  1. Borg Warner

    Borg Warner Free Full Clip!

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    First of all, the majority of 41 magnums do not have short barrels and the Night guard model is fairly rare and I can't find it in the current S&W line-up. Secondly, the velocity differential is only true of certain loads. With the 175 gr. silvertip 10 mm load, My Glock 20 develops higher velocities than my model 58 Smith & Wesson 4 inch barrel with the 175 gr. 41 mag silvertip. The Winchester silvertip loads for both 41 and 44 magnum are both relatively low-velocity loads in both those calibers, but in 10mm, the silvertip load is faster than the Hornady, federal, PMC or Remington load in the same 175-180gr weight.

    But with the heavier bullet loads the 41 magnum comes close to the 44 magnum even out of a shorter barrel and is capable of a lot more power than the 10mm can produce with heavier bullets. The average velocity loss or gain is 50 fps per barrel inch and the 41 magnum with bullets weighing 220 grains up to 250 grains can launch those bullet weights at more than 200 fps faster than the 10mm can and 230 grains is about the limit for the 10mm because a 250 grain bullet would have to be seated so deep in the case to fit in the magazine that there wouldn't be enough room for very much powder.

    Glock Talk is supposed to be publishing an article of mine in the articles section next week that will tell you everything you ever wanted to know about the 41 magnum (including a comparison to the 10mm) but were afraid to ask. The 41 magnum and I go way back and I'm also a huge fan of the 10mm and the Glocks 20 and 29.
     
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  2. happie2shoot

    happie2shoot

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    You can make that bet, I use the 10mm barrel
    in my G21 all the time, works just fine.
     

  3. Borg Warner

    Borg Warner Free Full Clip!

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    I never knew that, but I've heard that using 10mm barrels (and I always wrongly assumed that they were conversion barrels) in the 21 sometimes had extraction problems with the case head and rim of the 10mm being smaller than the 45 and that KKM sold a complete "Kit" with their 10mm barrels meant to be used in the model that had a special extractor and spring that would work with both cartridges.

    So I wonder if they sell the extractor and spring without the barrel.

    I have a 40-to-9 KKM conversion barrel for my G23 that works perfectly with my g19 mags AND my "G23" is actually a G19 frame with a G23 slide and I didn't change ejectors on it and it functions with both 40 and 357 sig.

    So does this mean I could put a G21 45 ACP barrel in my G20 and fire 45 ACP with G21 mags?
     
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  4. PattonT

    PattonT

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    No, just the barrel O.D. Is the same between the 20 and 21; the square chamber is larger on the 21.Lone Wolf doesn't even make a 10mm conversion barrel for the 21 which means a 20 barrel or Lone Wolf G20 has to be used.
     
  5. my_old_glock

    my_old_glock

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    The Barrels on my G20 and G21 are the same external size except for the tang/hood at the rear that mates with the breechface cutout.
     
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  6. Borg Warner

    Borg Warner Free Full Clip!

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    So I would guess they are not interchangeable either way because the chamber end of a G21 barrel would be too big at the breech end to fit in a G20 slide and a G20 barrel would be too small of a fit in the G21 slide unless they were the same dimensions front to back.

    What I want to know is will a Glock 21 barrel work in my Glock 20? It seems like most people are ,more interested on putting a 120mm barrel in their 45 than there are people who want to put a 45 barrel in their 10mm.

    And it doesn't even seem like anyone makes a 45 barrel to go into a G20, so I suspect that it isn't possible.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2017
  7. happie2shoot

    happie2shoot

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    The hood is too big on the 45 barrel to work in
    the g20.

    I have done most of what is on these threads, they
    will answer your questions.

    https://www.glocktalk.com/threads/grt45-archive.1421823/#post-22283466

    https://www.glocktalk.com/threads/glock-30-30sf-30s-information.1421425/

    Barrel manufacturer KKM recommends some minor gunsmith work on the stock .45 extractor that enables it to function more reliably for 10mm and continue to work for 45ACP. It involves removing no more than 0.020" from the 'fitting pad' on the inside of the .45 LCI extractor (see photo below) allowing it to travel closer to the axis of the bore and make solid contact with the 10mm case. Some who have studied this .45 extractor modification believe it functions better than the option of installing a stock 10mm extractor. It is best to modify a spare extractor in case of a problem. As material is filed from the fitting pad, test for proper tension of the extractor against a cartridge. With the slide removed from the frame, insert an empty 10mm case or dummy round underneath the extractor claw from the bottom of the slide. There should be some measurable tension being applied by the extractor’s vertical engagement edge to the cartridge. A dummy round should remain suspended by the inward force of the extractor. KKM can be contacted for advice and instructions before attempting this modification at (775) 246-5444

    [​IMG]

    As versatile as the g20 is the g21 is more so.

    All my after market barrels for the g20 work
    in my g21, even the 9mm, with that extractor
    mod, the modded ext even works with the
    45/460 Rowland too.

    The g21 is the most versatile and powerful Glock.
     
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  8. Michael Murphy

    Michael Murphy

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    No, the 10mm magnum is the same cartridge length as .41 and .44 magnum: it's a bit more than 1/4" longer than 10mm auto
     

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  9. Borg Warner

    Borg Warner Free Full Clip!

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    The 10mm magnum was originally developed for the AMT Automag IV which was a large, single action semi-automatic handgun.

    It was created by Harry Sanford, who also invented the original 44 Automag which used cut-down rimless 308 cases. The later Automags I, II, III, IV an V were a different design than the original Automag and more closely resembled a 1911 but with a slide mounted safety.

    The original 44 automag used a rotary bolt lockup similar to an AR15.

    AMT had a bad reputation for quality control. A friend of mine, a gunsmith in Southern California, once visited the AMT manufacturing facility and witnessed assembly line workers constantly adjusting the CNC settings on the machinery.

    And because most of these workers were of Hispanic decent, my friend always referred to AMT as "Amateur Mexican Technology".

    The Automag IV was the only semi-auto that was ever chambered for the 10mm magnum. The 10mm magnum is really only a viable cartridge for 10mm AUTO chambered revolvers that can be reamed out for 10mm Magnum and loaded to 41 magnum ballistics.
     
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  10. Michael Murphy

    Michael Murphy

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    Yes, I have a S&W 610 that is reamed to 10mm magnum. That revolver can now shoot .40 S&W, 10mm, and 10mm magnum.
     
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  11. Borg Warner

    Borg Warner Free Full Clip!

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    That is just about the perfect handgun.

    You can shoot relatively inexpensive factory 40 S$W ammo for practice, and something like Federal 180 grain HST 40 S&W for a home defense load which is lower pressure and has less muzzle blast than 10 mm auto loads, and has less recoil an dis faster on follow-up shots.

    Then for a woods and hunting load you can shoot full power 10mm magnum loads. And if you reload you can use many of the same projectiles for al 3 cases.

    I have owned and reloaded for many 44 magnum and 44 special handguns over the years but I prefer the 41 magnum over the 44. with bullets up to 240 grains of weight, I consider the 41 the better cartridge. Only with the 300 grain projectiles does the 44 mag have any advantage and even then you really need a Ruger Redhawk or a super Blackhawk with a 10 1/2 inch barrel to harness the additional power.

    For a factory woods load in the 10mm magnum Double tap hakes a 230 grain hardcast flatnose that develops 1250fps / 800 ft/lbs and a reloader can easily duplicate these ballistics. For hunting the 200 grain Hornady XTP would be the best choice and can be driven as high a 1600 fps and the same thing with a 200 grain FMJ.
     
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  12. Michael Murphy

    Michael Murphy

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    The only downside is the extra cleaning required after shooting the .40 and 10mm. The bullets sheer off a little copper or lead on the shoulders of the reaming in the cylinder, making cleaning the cylinder a ***** to enable the magnum cartridge to go deep enough. I've take a few deer with the magnum. Longest shot was 75 yards. Of course, I've taken a couple with the 10mm auto, too. First deer I ever shot was with my Colt Delta Elite at 25 yards.
    And yes, I do reload. can't afford to shoot my fun guns without it! (.300 Wthby magnum, .50 AE, .300 Win-Mag, .300 BLK, .30-30, 10mm magnum, .44 magnum)

    Almost forgot to mention: I have an Automag V in .50 AE. There's a reason they never made many!! :laughing:
     
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  13. unit1069

    unit1069

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    I've never owned a revolver but if I ever came across a quality .41 Magnum I'd surely be tempted. It's a very interesting caliber even if good ammo is scarce and expensive. (I don't reload but would like a large bore revolver for dangerous hiking territory)
     
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  14. fredj338

    fredj338

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    Magnums & even 10mm is where you save a ton of $$$ reloading. Most dont shoot their magnums much so even a singke stage setup would pay for itself.
    I have a nice 4" m57-1 in nickel. I dont shoot it a lot but always like the 41mag.
     
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  15. Borg Warner

    Borg Warner Free Full Clip!

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    A good 41 magnum for dangerous hiking territory would be a Smith and Wesson model 657 with either a 3 inch barrel or a pre-lock 657 "Mountain gun" with the 4 inch tapered barrel.

    loaded with the HSM hardcast "bear load" the hardcast 230 grain flatnose bullet is an effective load and comes in 50 round boxes so you can practice with it. It costs about a dollar a round. I've used it in a 41 magnum Blackhawk and in a marlin Lever action and it is very accurate ammo.

    https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1...grain-lead-semi-wadcutter-gas-check-box-of-50

    You would need a set of Hogue grips on the gun with that load however.

    Underwood and buffalo bore both make an even more powerful 265 grail load.

    relatively inexpensive practice ammo is also available for the 41 mag.

    https://www.laxammo.com/lax-ammunition-factory-new-41-rem-mag-210-gr-100-rds-detail

    Reloading is the way to go but it's hard to find load data for bullets much heavier than 225 grains except in the Lyman section of the Loadbooks USA manual. The bullets are available, though. Two good powders are AA9 and Alliant 2400 for all bullet weights and different velocity levels. A Lee hand press requires no reloading bench.

    https://www.midwayusa.com/product/673667/loadbooks-usa-reloading-manual

    https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/74341
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2019
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  16. NoJoy

    NoJoy

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  17. FullClip

    FullClip Native Mainiac CLM

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    The "original" 10mm Magnum was the now defunct Herters .401 Powermag. Too bad it was ahead of its time.
     
  18. happie2shoot

    happie2shoot

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