1 Helo + 1 Audience + 1 Idiot =

Discussion in 'The Okie Corral' started by HKMark23, Jun 24, 2005.

  1. HKMark23

    HKMark23 Millennium Member

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    Very lucky passengers.
    http://svt.se/content/1/c6/40/98/01/helikopter2.asx


    Tuesday June 21, 2005 8:31 PM

    AP Photo STO803

    By MATTIAS KAREN

    Associated Press Writer

    STOCKHOLM, Sweden (AP) - A Swedish man celebrating his 100th birthday with a helicopter ride survived a crash Tuesday, along with five other people, including his son, grandson and great-grandson, police said.

    Carl Zetterlund was to fly to the Stockholm archipelago with his son, grandson and 7-year-old great-grandson from a nursing home in Heby, about 60 miles northwest of the capital, Stockholm, police spokesman Ulf Palm said.

    But something went wrong shortly after the helicopter took off, and its rotor blades clipped a tree and a lamp post before the aircraft went down in a cloud of dust and smoke.

    The four family members, along with the pilot and a nursing home worker on board, escaped with cuts and bruises, Palm said.

    Palm said Zetterlund's relatives had chartered the helicopter as a birthday gift.

    After the 100-year-old was pulled from the wreck, he was flown on another helicopter to Uppsala University Hospital, where he was in stable condition, hospital officials said.

    ``He got a helicopter ride after all,'' Palm said.

    A local TV crew filming the family gathering got dramatic footage of the crash. Their video showed the rotor blades of the Lithuanian-registered MI-2 helicopter hitting a tree, then clipping the top off a lamp post.

    ``Then there was a bang, then one of the rotor blades broke off. I huddled up and waited for the crash. And it came almost immediately,'' one of the passengers, Ove Johansson, told Swedish Radio after the accident.

    Johansson said that with the help of two other people he managed to get Carl Zetterlund out of the helicopter. It was not clear whether Johansson was one of the family members.

    My guess is that he backed up like that so he could get some room to gain some forward airspeed because he knew he was overloaded.....
     
  2. CFII

    CFII

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    ok, WTF. Who the hell was flying that? That was total ****ing pilot error. What a waste of a couple million dollar helicopter.
     

  3. IslandHopper

    IslandHopper

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    So you were there ??? You were in the cockpit when it happened ???
     
  4. HKMark23

    HKMark23 Millennium Member

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    Its pretty obvious that it was at minimum a serious lack of judgment to try and stay in ground effect by trying to fly down a street between those trees, poles, cars, people, etc. in an overloaded helo.
    BTW the pilot admited to the film crew before the flight that he knew it was over MTOW and that the density alt was pretty high.
     
  5. MarcDW

    MarcDW MDW Guns Millennium Member

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    I bet he will look for a long time for a new job in the aviation industrie!
     
  6. AK_Stick

    AK_Stick AAAMAD

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    I dont know that he was overloaded, but I know he was a crappy pilot.
     
  7. M2 Carbine

    M2 Carbine

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    I haven't seen the video. For some reason I can't get it to download.

    Just wondering.
    How many of you fellows criticizing the pilot are helicopter rated?
     
  8. sopdan

    sopdan

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    Here is a direct link to the video from a different website, maybe it will work for you...

    http://media.skoopy.com/vids/vid_00639.wmv
     
  9. M2 Carbine

    M2 Carbine

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    Thanks sopdan.
    Very interesting video.

    As much as I try to give the pilot the benefit of a doubt in an incident, this pilot was in way over his head.

    For whatever reason the helicopter didn't want to hover but the pilot's control touch was pretty poor also.

    Since his judgement and control touch was so poor, you have to think inexperience???

    The only way to get that ship flying was to accelerate into translational lift as fast as possible and hope you will climb over the obstacles.
    It doesn't look like there was enough room to do that even if it was done right.
    This pilot just kind of farted around flying down the street until he hit something.

    When he picked up to a hover he should have known he couldn't get out of there and set it back down. The rest was all downhill.;Q
     
  10. HKMark23

    HKMark23 Millennium Member

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    Thats what I didnt understand.

    Im a fixed wing pilot, but do have about 5 hours of stick time in helos (mostly 10-15min stretches in MH-53's & 60's) so I really have no idea what Im talking about ;f

    When I first saw it I thought he was showing off or they were doing something for a movie. But from the little I do know, it would seem as if he backed up to get himself more space to pickup forward AS, so why then did he really not try to gain any? As you said he just farted around puttering down the street, I never saw any effort to put the nose down.

    And from what he said to the news crew just before the crash (translated by others) he admitted knowing that he would be overweight and supposedly even mentioned the heat being a factor. So why did he do it anyway?

    M2 I do have a question that you might be able to answer, when he cliped those trees just after passing the camera, would he have been able to feel that through the controls?
    You think maybe that scared him and thats why he backed off and just floated down the street?

    When dropping into some tight places while in the AF we clipped stuff a few times. Once we took of a few 2" limbs in a 60 when the gunner on the left called more room than we had (I was on the ramp with the .50 that day so NOT my fault). The AC felt/heard it and just contiunued to set down, good thing too as we splintered two of the blades a bit and lost pressure in one.

    BTW did anyone notice the car come around the corner on the left side of the frame and then stop? I bet that was strange to be driving down the road and come up to a helo like that. Then watch it crash!
     
  11. M2 Carbine

    M2 Carbine

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    1--Backing up (if possible) is normal in any kind of confined area.
    He entered the TO with the nose down OK and was accelerating. He was climbing and was above the camera man. His only chance was to keep gaining airspeed to increase the climb.
    In other words you are already pulling full power just to hover and move forward, so you have little control over how fast the helicopter is going to climb.
    You try and hold a good nose low attitude that will give you the fastest acceleration and best climb.

    IMHO as he passed the camera man, the pilot saw he he wasn't climbing fast enough and his natural (wrong) reaction was to pull the nose up to clear the trees. This just reduces the AS and reduces the lift, so instead of climbing or even maintaining altitude, the chopper is going to mush downward.

    2--What can you say about someone that tries to take off over loaded on a hot day from a confined area.;Q
    That bird was having a hard time hovering. It's obvious when he picked up to a hover the pilot was looking at torque and temperature gages that were Red lined.

    3--In the mountains I've clipped small branches when landing, maybe about the size he hit, maybe smaller. Really I heard it and seen it but didn't feel it.
    I think you are exactly right that after clipping the tree and losing AS and lift he "lost it".

    IMHO again, he had one last chance to avoid a crash.
    When he clipped the tree he should have been been pulling the nose up to stop his forward movement and landing ASAP. It looked like he had enough room and time to land on the road before reaching that car on the left.
    A quick stop/landing like that would have taken more power than he obviously had, so he would have had to over temp and over torque the engines big time.
    Better to fry the engines than crash.

    4--I saw the car. Just another screw up in that operation. No one stopping the cars.

    Bottom line.
    One more opinion and we all know about opinions.;f
    When the pilot picked up to a hover he should have realized that bird wasn't going to get out of that area.
    If the darned thing won't hardly hover it takes a lot of clear space to get it flying.


    But considering some of the dumb crap I've done and got away with it, I don't throw stones.:)
     
  12. AK_Stick

    AK_Stick AAAMAD

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    Not doubting your claim, but are you sure this was in a 60? We dont have ramps in ours. to me, a 50 on a ramp would be indicitive of a 53.
     
  13. HKMark23

    HKMark23 Millennium Member

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    This was the special H-60ZR-2 model with the stealth ramp for deploying secret agent 008.5 ;f



    Your right it was in a MH-53J that we did the weed wacker routine, up on Wheeler Peak in northern New Mexico.

    Are you AF or Army?
     
  14. AK_Stick

    AK_Stick AAAMAD

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