Home > Firearms Forums > General Firearms Forum > “If it rattles, take it to battle”.....

“If it rattles, take it to battle”.....

  1. The implication of this quote being that tolerances that are too tight don’t mesh well with use in the real world. Where did I learn this quote from?? I think if memory serves it was made by a world war 2 vet speaking of the 1911 pistol. You wanted one that rattled....has looser tolerances to be more reliable. Anybody else ever heard this quote?


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  2. Yep! Years ago!
     
  3. Better quality commercial 1911s prove that sloppy clearances aren't necessary to have accurate and reliable guns. Maybe if you want to drag your high quality 1911 through the mud, the gun with looser clearances might be more resistant to failure but maybe not.

    I'll stick with modern products. Don
     
  4. Am I the only one who uses the term "Battle Rattle" when referring to full gear.

    it was taught to me year 's ago by a vet.
     
  5. InRangeTV’s mud tests have proven that theory unreliable IMO.

    Tight tolerances, proper lubrication, and a design that seals the internals up from outside contamination seem to have a much greater influence in reliability in harsh conditions than just “loose tolerances” in general.
     
  6. I had a Kimber Stainless Classic Gold Match that was tight. Never rattled. I would not trust is in a defensive situation. It only ran flawlessly when it was cleaned and freshly lubed. It was a nice range toy, but very accurate for an OOB 1911.
     
  7. To much ‘rattle’ may give your position away to the adversary. A metallic ‘click’ at the wrong time is like a bullhorn going off.
     
  8. Well the Springfield Pro proved to be one of the most reliable 1911’s available and it’s very tight:

    Not sure how much mud testing was done, but it’s a very reliable 1911.
     
  9. rattler.jpeg
     

  10. No. Full battle rattle meant all of your load bearing gear, armor, pro-mask and weapon when I was in as well.
     
  11. It has been my experience that when it comes to 1911 pistols, the ones built to tighter tolerances seem to be more reliable than the looser guns. Then again, I haven’t dragged any of them through the mud, but that has been my experience under normal conditions.
     
  12. When we issued M1911's at the Armory, some would shake it and say, "Hey, this thing rattles like crazy" We would look at them and say "So" I did hand select my duty pistol and it usually had no rattle and was finely massaged. I remember the day I found a US&S and claimed it like a winning lottery ticket.
     
  13. Here's a great rattler', the Japanese WW2 Arisaka type 38 and type 99 rifle. It's dustcover was so noisy flopping around many soldiers just pulled them off and threw them away.
     
  14. Bummer for the line dogs.

    Armorers in my day were assigned to headquarters and weren't gonna see anywhere near the action the other companies would.

    Too bad you couldn't do armorer things and fix them...
     
  15. Night trench raid instructions during WWI called for the 1911 to be carried in the hand, round in the chamber, hammer down and smeared with mud so it would not shine.

    Bring back only 3 prisoners and kill any others that may have been captured.

    We learned all that stuff from the Canadians. They were masters of trench raids.
     
  16. I was painting with a broad brush. We indeed used our rubber mallets, vice, tools, bench blocks, stones, etc.. to tweak many a pistol. We did not have the time to massage every single 1911. They were all functional and very serviceable.
     
  17. Waiting for the rattle expert......

    #CanyonMan
     
  18. We used to laugh at how worn and loose the old M16's were while at the same time I could get in the prone and drill 300 meter targets one after the other with iron sites.....yeah they rattled....
     
  19. Prone at 300 meters? We ran while eating C-rats and shot at that distance LOL. Didn't get down until at least 500 meters! The M16 could hit a 8" circle at 500 meters in the windy rain with iron sights.
     
  20. True....Army qualification required prone pop up targets out to 300 meters and that's what we trained for(25 years regular Army and retired)......recently noticed marines are still shooting to 500 meters but doing it with optics now....I never shot an optic on a M16....but these days it's the only way I could hit a 500 meter target with my old eyes....:cowboy:
     
  21. People used to laugh at me when I took my maracas to battle. Who's laughing now?
     
  22. If this is true, my Taurus PT1911 must be a fighting beast. It rattles like a 50 year old farm truck on a washboard road. It's scarcely 2 years old and has maybe 1000 rounds through it. I rattled new, from day-one. None of my other 1911s, from $300 to $4000+ rattle even a little bit. Never, ever a failure. The reason military 1911s were fitted so loose was not so much for reliability, but compatibility. Reliability was already built into the design. They were made from an assortment of manufacturers and few of them were actually firearms manufacturers. An armorer could disassemble a bucket full of 1911s, mix, match and swap parts between them and not have to worry about something not fitting. If you can get one of the 1911s from the CMP, you may get a Colt frame and Ithaca slide, with a Union Switch & Signal barrel. Who knows where the rest of the internals came from? I second bac1023's assessment of the S/A Professional.
     
  23. ^^^^^^^ Tito's Glock said:
    'Waiting for the rattle expert......
    #CanyonMan'


    Well dang amigo, for be it from me to disappoint ya! ;)




    CM
    :horse:


    !cid_001c01c9efb9$b3144c90$6564a8c0@Northwest2.jpg !cid_001e01c9efb9$b3144c90$6564a8c0@Northwest2.jpg !ATT5.jpg
     
  24. We had a hostage/domestic situation a year ago where the male half had a revolver and walked out into the car port to confront the rollers, holding her in front of him with the gun to her head. Several units had responded and took position with M4 configured AR-15s with iron sights. The front sight posts obscured both the heads of S1 and the victim so they couldn't take the shot. A neighboring department arrived with 2MOA red dots and a guy immediately took the shot and put S1 down for good with a 45g frangible to the eye (PM me for more details)

    Guess who ordered optics for all of their ARs?