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Yesterday I overheard a discussion between my wife and her at times mildly liberal friend. Friend was thinking about getting her license and carrying a gun for protection. When the moment was right I asked “Could you kill someone?”. She said no, could never kill anyone. I responded every second that I carry a gun I’m prepared to take as many lives as needed in defense of my families lives and my own. Of course I don’t want to take a life but a them or me scenario you gotta do what you gotta do. Until you can get in that headspace you shouldn’t really carry a gun. She’s rethinking it.
 

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The goal of the armed citizen is not to kill someone, but to "break contact" with the bad person. This means you "win" if the bad guy stops being bad by any means (runs away, is shot in the peener and falls down, etc.) or you get to run away. That should be the mindset. The other person dying, while not likely, is still possible, just as it is every time you drive a car. So you are right that its a mindset issue. Break contact and run away, or make the bad person change his behavior. Maybe Little Missy can focus on that, which is more palatable than "shoot to kill".
 

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The goal of the armed citizen is not to kill someone, but to "break contact" with the bad person. This means you "win" if the bad guy stops being bad by any means (runs away, is shot in the peener and falls down, etc.) or you get to run away. That should be the mindset. The other person dying, while not likely, is still possible, just as it is every time you drive a car. So you are right that its a mindset issue. Break contact and run away, or make the bad person change his behavior. Maybe Little Missy can focus on that, which is more palatable than "shoot to kill".

That's not cool Butters, you never shoot a guy in the peener. Everyone knows that. That's just....weak.
 

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If I have to shoot someone, I just want them to stop doing what caused me to start shooting them. I won't be thinking about them living or dying in the moment. No idea how I'd feel about it afterwards.

You have the wrong mindset and sent the wrong message to someone you might have been able to turn pro gun.
 

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The goal of the armed citizen is not to kill someone, but to "break contact" with the bad person. * * *
Actually, your immediate goal - in defending your life or a loved one's with deadly force - is to stop the imminent threat.

Only after the attacker is face-down on the concrete (or floor of your home) from a well-executed Mozambique is it appropriate to 'break contact,' the threat having been extinguished.

So the premise underlying these sorts of discussions is always wrong from the git-go. You're not 'shooting to kill.'

You're shooting to stop the imminent threat to your life and/or personal safety (or someone's)

Even liberals get that. They just think a legally-armed citizen's life is worth less than the life of the criminal(s) attacking her, and so blindly pursue the social agenda of trying to disarm the law-abiding.
 

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What people believe they can do may well change when they are required to do it, particularly when it comes to violence against another person. They can speak with confidence, and be entirely wrong when required to defend themselves.

I believe I’m capable of defending myself by stopping a lethal threat, but I could be entirely wrong.

I spoke with someone (actually interviewed them) who was attacked by two yoots when he stopped to get gas late at night. His pistol was in the center console (Glock .45) loaded, round in chamber. He was being dragged out his car and had one hand on the steering wheel to hold himself in.

His primary thought, he told me, was, “Is this when I can shoot someone?” He was concerned about going to jail!

That’s an important consideration, and I think I would be thinking that as well. That, and I have no desire to harm, much less kill, someone else. That “shoot/no shoot” decision is an important part of defensive training.
 

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Before anyone considers a firearm or to just defensed yourself in general, you need to be prepared mentally. If you dont understand that your actions may cost anothers life, get a big dog, life ins policy & stay home.
 

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The goal of the armed citizen is not to kill someone, but to "break contact" with the bad person. This means you "win" if the bad guy stops being bad by any means (runs away, is shot in the peener and falls down, etc.) or you get to run away. That should be the mindset. The other person dying, while not likely, is still possible, just as it is every time you drive a car. So you are right that its a mindset issue. Break contact and run away, or make the bad person change his behavior. Maybe Little Missy can focus on that, which is more palatable than "shoot to kill".
There may be a time where you are not trying to break contact but end an attack. Live or due, that is the general goal of self defense. The time to ponder your attackers death is not during the attack.
 

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I always called this “neutralizing the threat”.
 

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What people believe they can do may well change when they are required to do it, particularly when it comes to violence against another person. They can speak with confidence, and be entirely wrong when required to defend themselves.

I believe I’m capable of defending myself by stopping a lethal threat, but I could be entirely wrong.

I spoke with someone (actually interviewed them) who was attacked by two yoots when he stopped to get gas late at night. His pistol was in the center console (Glock .45) loaded, round in chamber. He was being dragged out his car and had one hand on the steering wheel to hold himself in.

His primary thought, he told me, was, “Is this when I can shoot someone?” He was concerned about going to jail!

That’s an important consideration, and I think I would be thinking that as well. That, and I have no desire to harm, much less kill, someone else. That “shoot/no shoot” decision is an important part of defensive training.
While a true statement, we dont know what will happen until it does, not preparing mentally, you are pretty much doomed to indecision at a critical moment. The bad guy will not hesitate. Train & practice, commit mentally to the fight when it comes & never quit. It is how soldiers & LEO are trained. The armed citizen should really be no diff.
 

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I REALLY, REALLY, DO NOT WANT TO SHOOT ANYONE.
Now, Could I, I'm thinking probably, if it reaches that, BUT you probably won't know till you reach that situation!
This is after having "carried" for over 40 years and only.."unholstering", and putting the gun in my hand in my pocket ONE time....
 

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If I have to shoot someone, I just want them to stop doing what caused me to start shooting them. I won't be thinking about them living or dying in the moment. No idea how I'd feel about it afterwards.

You have the wrong mindset and sent the wrong message to someone you might have been able to turn pro gun.
I get what you're saying, but the act of shooting someone COM or CNS has a decent chance of killing them. The only thing worse than being unarmed while being attacked is being armed but saying to yourself "OMG I don't want to hurt anyone!" and now the attacker has YOUR gun. I, personally, don't have any issue with the way the OP worded his statement. I don't carry a gun to "kill" anyone either, but I'm not going to sit here and pretend that shooting to stop someone's assault against me or my family isn't likely to result in their death.
 

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What people believe they can do may well change when they are required to do it, particularly when it comes to violence against another person. They can speak with confidence, and be entirely wrong when required to defend themselves.

I believe I’m capable of defending myself by stopping a lethal threat, but I could be entirely wrong.

I spoke with someone (actually interviewed them) who was attacked by two yoots when he stopped to get gas late at night. His pistol was in the center console (Glock .45) loaded, round in chamber. He was being dragged out his car and had one hand on the steering wheel to hold himself in.

His primary thought, he told me, was, “Is this when I can shoot someone?” He was concerned about going to jail!

That’s an important consideration, and I think I would be thinking that as well. That, and I have no desire to harm, much less kill, someone else. That “shoot/no shoot” decision is an important part of defensive training.
...... which is why it is important to consider these types of scenarios in advance.
There will not be a lot of time for a full mental review if something happens.

...... good thread topic.

(You shoot only do enough to stop the threat)
 

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I REALLY, REALLY, DO NOT WANT TO SHOOT ANYONE.
Now, Could I, I'm thinking probably, if it reaches that, BUT you probably won't know till you reach that situation!
This is after having "carried" for over 40 years and only.."unholstering", and putting the gun in my hand in my pocket ONE time....
hmm....just thinking out loud, but it seems like there is enough "probably" in your position to cause hesitation in the moment. My personal belief is that many "good guys" may have a tendency to hesitate more than "bad guys".
 

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Probably a great topic for another thread one day.

Where is the line in the continuum of No Shoot - Shoot

In Car
At home
In store
In Restaurant
Neighbor calls.
Dog park
Disproportionate size


......,some other time

Or is it all the same “ I was in fear of death or great bodily harm for me and / a loved one?
 

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Many men have never killed anything, so in a very real sense, they honestly don't know if they could kill a human being. In a way, this quandary is similar to walking in your backyard, where your children frequently play, and seeing a 4' Rattlesnake. After the initial surprise, you would simply pull your sidearm and shoot it until it was dead. You wouldn't feel good or bad about it, you just do what has to be done to keep you and your family safe, and never give it another thought. Human "Rattlesnakes" are no different.
 
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