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    1. · Registered
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      8,142 Posts
      I have purchased my LAST 22 long rifle. It's been three years since I've seen a bulk pack of ammo on a store shelf. I'm sure 20 people will chime in and say I can mail order all I want for $75 a 500 pack. I used to buy 550 packs for $18. Yep, I'm done! For the COST of 22LR I will at least shoot something I can reload myself.

      I hope you enjoy yours. They WERE fun.
      I hope/believe that ammo will come down in
      price, I already see it now.

      That said the 223 is capable of shooting really
      cheap and accurate.

      Get one of these and go to work,

      https://www.midsouthshooterssupply....or-point225-diameter-2-cavity-mold-c225-55-rf

      https://www.midsouthshooterssupply....or-point225-diameter-6-cavity-mold-c225-55-rf

      You will shoot for around four to five cents a shot,
      the primer is the most costly part, around three
      cents each.

      I have had good accuracy, 3/8'' at 34 yds, with as
      little as two grains of powder and also up to 2000
      fps with using a GC on the boolit and around 7/16''
      at 34 yards. The GC is extra cost but really helps
      and can be made at home cheap is you get/make
      the setup for making them.

      If you want data let me know.

      This gun will kinda replace any Rim Fire and
      also shoot to 600 yards with the right loads.

      http://palmettostatearmory.com/sava...ign=Daily+Deals+Email&utm_content=12:00+Email

      We have tested seven of them with 22'' barrels.
       
    1. · Registered
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      8,142 Posts
      For you that have a 223 and want to shoot it
      as cheap or cheaper than 22lr, you may want
      to consider casting, even for your AR 15.

      The primer is the most expensive part
      for many loads and small pistol primers
      work great.

      This one is only around 20 dollars to test
      things out.

      https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/dept/reloading/lead-bullet-casting/lee-moulds/-point-225-dia

      https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/0000690459/point225-diameter-6-cavity-mold-c225-55-rf

      AR data,

      http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?156326-AR-15-500-Round-Cast-Bullet-Test

      I have got three shots under 1/2'' at 38 yards with
      as little as two grains, 880 fps in a 22'' bolt gun
      and very quiet.
       
    1. · Registered
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      8,142 Posts
      I missed participating in this thread from another GT sub forum:

      https://www.glocktalk.com/threads/shtf-gun-9mm-carbine-vs-223-rifle.1662992/

      However, I'd like to take this discussion away from SHTF and TEOTWAWKI and WROL scenarios for a bit and talk about the day-to-day pros and cons of 9mm semiauto PCCs only. Someone else can explain/defend .45 carbines or lever guns.

      Facts not seriously in dispute about 9mm PCCs:

      Pound for pound 9mm and 5.56 rounds with mags are functionally of equivalent weight, but the 9mm mags consume less space.
      Round for round 5.56 is much more powerful and far ranging than any 9mm.
      The 9mm will produce less muzzle flash and sonic report than 5.56 at the same barrel lengths.
      The PCC will be easier to suppress. A PCC like the CX4 has no gas system to contend with.
      Though some may claim it possible due to wringing max velocity out of the fired round, a 9mm PCC cannot be counted upon to defeat soft body armor.
      * * * *

      Okay then. I have a PCC I like very much, a 9mm Beretta CX4 that is the companion piece for a couple of PX4 and M92 pistols I have.

      Some may call it a range toy, others a weak overpackaging of a pistol round. However, for a long gun, it gets the most trigger time of any of the ones I own. Here's how I view my own PCC:

      1. I can fire the PCC any day I want. I can use it at all area indoor pistol lanes. My gun club has an outdoor pistol range that is completely gravel covered, so it's open in all weather. Many ranges here will close for heavy snow, rain, or the resultant quagmire.

      2. It's way cheaper to feed. Factory ammo is generally cheaper than 5.56, but 9mm reloading is way cheaper and simpler if casting your own lead.

      3. No tinkertoy temptation. The parts, especially the massive blowback operated bolt, are robust. There isn't much point to replacing anything.

      4. It's useful for self-defense in the vast majority of circumstances. I live in a moderately sized urban area of around 200k souls. In the two plus decades I have put in here, I cannot recall one instance of local criminal activity involving the use of even commercial grade soft body armor, to say nothing of anything more exotic. The North Hollywood bank robbery down in California was spectacular, but it was also a unicorn.

      5. With practice any 9mm CX4 will easily and repeatedly hit a chest sized gong at 200mm using nothing optical greater than a 4MOA red dot and some judicious holdover.

      So, is it a replacement for a true rifle? Nah. Is it a very viable trunk gun or indoor oriented SD long arm? I think so, especially as it shares mags with my EDC.

      I bought my CX4 on a lark. I too initially thought of it as a fun range toy. It has eventually become my favorite "rifle."
      One day I will get a H Point 9mm rifle for plinking and some hunting,
      I kinda look at it like a 10/22 to the max, would even take it deer hunting,
      close range only. I believe it will be a great cast boolit gun.

      Now about the AR15 and cast boolits, many don't know it can be done.
      The 223 bolt guns are easy and cheaper to shoot than a 9mm, even
      with cast. I have some loads with only two grains of powder and a 54
      grain cast boolit, replaces those eight cent 22lr bullets, also have some
      very good loads with cast with 58gr boolits going 2000 fps, with seven
      grains of powder.

      I have not shot cast in my ARs yet, but I will, hear is some data for it,

      http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?156326-AR-15-500-Round-Cast-Bullet-Test

      For you that want to shoot cast in the 223, here is some molds,

      https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/0000690451/point225-diameter-2-cavity-mold-c225-55-rf

      https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/0000690459/point225-diameter-6-cavity-mold-c225-55-rf
       
    1. · Registered
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      8,142 Posts
      I have many 22lr but don't shoot them much.

      If one will cast and reload, you can shoot your
      223 for around four to five cents a shot, the
      primer will be the most costly part.

      https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/0000690451/point225-diameter-2-cavity-mold-c225-55-rf

      https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/0000690459/point225-diameter-6-cavity-mold-c225-55-rf

      With a few more cents you can make an AR
      function with them.

      My slowest load is around 900 fps, with two
      grains of powder, with seven grains it is
      around 2000 fps, better than a 22 mag.
       
    1. · Registered
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      8,142 Posts
      I don't know that I could justify 3 rounds per day not to mention making that much noise 3 times a day! I think trapping would be much more effective.

      If you're stockpiling for volume then it needs to be 22 lr. You get 4x the quantity for price and takes up a fraction of the space.

      Back on topic, I don't think gun fights would be very common. Save the centerfire stuff for emergency/SD but I honestly don't think you'd be using it.

      Machete's on the other hand...!
      With one of these you can load ammo for the 223 or many other 22 cf guns
      that can be cheaper and quieter than your 22lr. You can also load them up
      to 2500 fps very cheap, you can actually do it with most bigger cf rifles too.

      They also work good in an AR15.

      https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/0000690451/point225-diameter-2-cavity-mold-c225-55-rf

      https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/0000690459/point225-diameter-6-cavity-mold-c225-55-rf

      I do like the thought of trapping though, that's why I have 38 Conibear
      traps in different sizes, four big enough to take deer.

      View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40WvRRUrUSQ


      http://www.mountainmantraps.com/duketraps.htm

      View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58jg5YwHSRk


      go to 1:30 to see how they work.
      View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QCPbxlHpNs
       
    1. · Registered
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      8,142 Posts
      This is not so much hording, more like
      being a good Boy Scout, the old kind,
      not the new PC kind.

      Some things every serious shooter should have.

      At least one mold that works good for every gun you own, many of these molds work in many guns, most come in a two or six cavity.

      This mold will work good in almost all 22 center fire guns, from the 223 to the 220 swift, even an AR15.

      https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/0000690451/point225-diameter-2-cavity-mold-c225-55-rf

      This is the six cavity version, I have both and now that they are proven will get an extra.

      https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/0000690459/point225-diameter-6-cavity-mold-c225-55-rf

      For most .30 cal guns, from the 30-30 to the magnums.

      This one will let your big game rifle shoot cheaper than a 22lr but have more power, from subsonic to over 2000 fps.

      https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/0000690362/double-cavity-mold-c309-113-f

      For the 7.62x39 but it will work great in most .30 guns like a 308, 30-06 and up to the magnums.

      https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/0000690385/double-cavity-mold-c312-155-2r

      For the 12 ga,
      with this slug mold you can get the cheap 100
      round
      cases of shot loads for 22 dollars and melt the shot down
      and cast it into slugs, put the slug into the shell and have a deer slug load.

      https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/0000690281/single-cavity-shotgun-slug-mold-12-gauge-1-oz

      More shotgun molds for slugs and buckshot,

      https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/dept/reloading/lead-bullet-casting/lee-moulds/12-ga

      For the 38/357 mag but I have used them in the 9mm and 357 sig too.

      For the 9mm, 38 super, 357sig, 38 sp and 357 mag, it
      was made for the 38/357 but it is my go to boolit for
      the 9mm. It is great for small game and would be an
      OK DF load too, will penetrate much more than normal
      DF loads.

      It is a must have because it works so good in
      so many different cases,
      https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/0000690574/double-cavity-mould-358-125-rf

      This is one of my go to 38/357 boolits, it's easy to use and shoots great, when loaded full it would shoot through a 500 lb elk.
      My most shot load is with five grains of 700x for around 1025 fps in a six inch barrel. It is a TL design.

      https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/0000690321/double-cavity-mold-tl358-158-swc

      This is a standard lube design and works great too,

      https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/0000690303/double-cavity-mold-358-158-rf

      For the 40 and 10mm, I would use it for deer hunting and DF if it is all I had, it will penetrate much more than most DF bullets.

      https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/0000690256/double-cavity-mold-401-175-tc

      For the 44 mag, it's best for hunting big game,
      if fit to a good revolver, it should shoot under four inches at 100 yards, have done under two inches at 100 yards, can be used at 1000 fps
      for close shooting.

      https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/0000690858/double-cavity-mold-c430-310-rf

      For most things 45, from the 45 acp to the 454 Casull, have shot all of them to two hundreds
      yards with good results.

      This one is a must have,
      https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/0000690234/double-cavity-mold-452-200-rf

      https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/0000690358/double-cavity-mold-452-255-rf

      https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/0000690359/double-cavity-mold-c452-300-rf

      You can't hardly have too many small rifle primers, they can be used
      in most handgun if you know what you are doing, even 10mm and 44 mag. You still should have a lot of large pistol and large rifle.

      With a few eight lb kegs of powder like Bullseye,
      you will be shooting a long time if you have enough primers.

      With some of my 223 loads I get 3500 shots
      pr one pound of powder, that's why you need
      a lot of primers, that load is a 55gr cast boolit
      around 900 fps, kinda like a 22lr pistol, but
      cheaper. With seven grains of BE you will get
      1900 fps, kinda like a 22 magnum but cheaper
      and more powerful.

      This will work for most rifles and handguns.

      IMHO, you should learn how to and what loads
      now while things are still available.
       
    1. · Registered
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      8,142 Posts
      OP, something to think about, yes we all should have
      some guns for different reasons but things have been
      different since the early 90s.

      When I started shooting, early 60s, and started reloading,
      66, was ten years old, we never worried about not finding
      ammo or reloading components, things are different now.

      I believe we all should not only have guns but should be
      able to cast and reload, you will save in the long run and
      will probably not run out of ammo. If you stock up.

      Many rounds can be made for four to six cents a shot and
      you can tailor loads to different applications, like in a 223
      rifle.

      Some of my 223 loads are a cast boolit at 900 fps and are
      very quiet and cheaper than most 22lr ammo, some are
      around 2000 fps and replace the 22 win mag, and some
      can be made much faster and will function in an AR15.

      This design boolit can be used in many 22 CF cartridges and
      at different velocities,

      https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/0000690451/point225-diameter-2-cavity-mold-c225-55-rf

      https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/0000690459/point225-diameter-6-cavity-mold-c225-55-rf

      This is not unique to a 22 center fire, all calibers can do it.

      Maybe spending money on reloading and casting would
      be a good idea and kind of an insurance policy, be a boy
      scout, be prepared.
       
    2. · Registered
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      12,896 Posts
      Discussion Starter · #53 ·
      OP, something to think about, yes we all should have
      some guns for different reasons but things have been
      different since the early 90s.

      When I started shooting, early 60s, and started reloading,
      66, was ten years old, we never worried about not finding
      ammo or reloading components, things are different now.

      I believe we all should not only have guns but should be
      able to cast and reload, you will save in the long run and
      will probably not run out of ammo. If you stock up.

      Many rounds can be made for four to six cents a shot and
      you can tailor loads to different applications, like in a 223
      rifle.

      Some of my 223 loads are a cast boolit at 900 fps and are
      very quiet and cheaper than most 22lr ammo, some are
      around 2000 fps and replace the 22 win mag, and some
      can be made much faster and will function in an AR15.

      This design boolit can be used in many 22 CF cartridges and
      at different velocities,

      https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/0000690451/point225-diameter-2-cavity-mold-c225-55-rf

      https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/0000690459/point225-diameter-6-cavity-mold-c225-55-rf

      This is not unique to a 22 center fire, all calibers can do it.

      Maybe spending money on reloading and casting would
      be a good idea and kind of an insurance policy, be a boy
      scout, be prepared.
      I have thought about reloading before, but there are two issues:
      1. I don't know if I have the patience and precision for it. I have seen the aftermath of double charged loads.
      2. My current work schedule is 7 days a week, with varying hours. I usually get up at 4 am, and finish around 8 or 9 pm, except Sat/Sun where I am done around 3 or 4 pm. I am able to shoot twice a month for about an hour - not due to money, but time. Time in between appointments is filled with short naps, paperwork, program design, and scheduling.

      Reloading is something I'll consider when I retire.
       
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