Glock Talk banner

Can anyone recommend a good HD load?

11K views 127 replies 55 participants last post by  Rock2411 
#1 ·
I have an 870 (some "tactical" version). I shot some 3" 00 12 gauge through it and man, it was brutal.

Can I get some recommendations for something that isn't so stiff, but still effective as a defensive round?

Thanks in advance.
 
#83 ·
Brother.. I will take the exceedingly minor "turret" handicap in exchange for making myself a less obvious target. I will also accept it in exchange for being able to move with greater agility from a stance where my weight is already poised on the front or back. Its not like its difficult to follow a moving target from half a dozen less squared off stances. People have managed to quite expertly do just that for a hundred years. The absolute ability to function as a turret is not a high priority to me when compared to many other issues likely to be at hand. I say this as someone who is not likely to be fighting a large team of criminals at one time. Soldiering is much different than dealing with a robber or home invader.
 
#85 ·
I’m not advocating as either better than the other, just that there are pros and cons to each.


Personally the only real issue I have with blading is the increased likelihood of a transverse penetrating injury getting more vital organs than a direct penetration.
 
#88 ·
I posted this on another - what load should I use thread - it was about 2 years ago - I think it still applies.



Whatever 00 buck Walmart has on sale is going to be just as good as your fancy pants buckshot.

This would be obvious to anyone that has ever shot anything at 5-10 yards with 00 buckshot.



00 buck for black bear -- BLACK BEAR!




But you need a special wad to control the pattern when shooting a human intruder inside your home.
 
#92 ·
I just saw that my old thread came alive again. I've learned quite a bit from all of the posts here....thank you.

I've settled on no. 4 shot for HD. I also started bringing my shotgun to the range twice a month. As well, I bought snap cap, dummy rounds to practice with.

Note: when I practice at the range, I have to use 7 1/2 shot or smaller on the steel targets per club regs. I'm one of the safety officers there and I'm on the board too, so I better follow the regs. :)
 
#93 ·
I just saw that my old thread came alive again. I've learned quite a bit from all of the posts here....thank you.

I've settled on no. 4 shot for HD. I also started bringing my shotgun to the range twice a month. As well, I bought snap cap, dummy rounds to practice with.

Note: when I practice at the range, I have to use 7 1/2 shot or smaller on the steel targets per club regs. I'm one of the safety officers there and I'm on the board too, so I better follow the regs. :)

No 4 shot or No 4 buck?
 
#97 ·
Turning your body sideways towards a threat, increases the likelihood of a penetrating trauma hitting more vital organs than one squared up to a threat. This is not debatable. A transverse impact in the armpit region, is one of the most dangerous places for a bullet to strike.
The perspective relates to what you consider to be more important. Being a larger target with maximized resistance or being a smaller more agile target with less resistance. As I said in the very beginning I AM NOT WEARING ARMOR and neither is 99% of the people running around in public. Are you wearing armor when you go to the grocery store?

I adobted a bladed fighting style decades ago and no hubbub over armpit holes is going to change my style or platform. As far as I am concerned, armor would be a bonus layer of skin that I intend to protect as much as my own. I fight how I fight and if everyone put on armor tomorrow, I would still fight the same way. When I say fight, I am referring to training to combat criminal attacks. I am not down with all this new-age whiz-bang stuff. I am the guy who utilizes a low ready, getting small behind a rifle and using the magwell of an AR as a grip. If you want to worry about armpit holes.. go ahead. I will worry about any and all hits regardless. That said, I am not squaring up to anything.. its simply not my schtick.
 
#99 ·
The perspective relates to what you consider to be more important. Being a larger target with maximized resistance or being a smaller more agile target with less resistance. As I said in the very beginning I AM NOT WEARING ARMOR and neither is 99% of the people running around in public. Are you wearing armor when you go to the grocery store?

I adobted a bladed fighting style decades ago and no hubbub over armpit holes is going to change my style or platform. As far as I am concerned, armor would be a bonus layer of skin that I intend to protect as much as my own. I fight how I fight and if everyone put on armor tomorrow, I would still fight the same way. When I say fight, I am referring to training to combat criminal attacks. I am not down with all this new-age whiz-bang stuff. I am the guy who utilizes a low ready, getting small behind a rifle and using the magwell of an AR as a grip. If you want to worry about armpit holes.. go ahead. I will worry about any and all hits regardless. That said, I am not squaring up to anything.. its simply not my schtick.

That's fine, I was just commenting on the odd statements you make that are contradictory to themselves.

Your chosen shooting position reduces agility, and mobility. But you're saying you want a position that is more agile and mobile.

You say you want a shooting position that makes it less likely that you'll be hit. But I've never seen anything suggesting a bladed shooter is less likely to be hit. However, I have seen quite a bit of information about how transverse penetrations from the armpit are more dangerous than straight front to back.
 
#104 ·
While I can see the logic in bladed stance, the reason I have shied away from it is my use of body armor. While I realize this isn't an option for everyone, I don't wish to expose my uncover sides to fire when I have bullet resistant material up front. It makes good sense for me, but I know it is not for everyone.
 
#109 ·
I have an 870 (some "tactical" version). I shot some 3" 00 12 gauge through it and man, it was brutal.

Can I get some recommendations for something that isn't so stiff, but still effective as a defensive round?

Thanks in advance.
No need at all for 3" - the police don't even use them. It's buckshot - anything with a 0, by any brand, is just fine.

I use this, because I was given a few hundred rounds of it a few years ago by somebody from a law enforcement agency. Given the number of people I typically shoot, I expect it to last:
 
#117 ·
That's very impressive. I should look into those. My bedside gun is a .45 (HK45). It is also my woods/hiking/fishing gun, loaded with Buffalo Bore super, duper ++++++ death ray something or other.
 
#112 ·
A good fighting stance works. It works for hand to hand, pistol and long gun. I've spent years of simmunitions training where I've been the bad guy and I can tell you that guys that use chapman or weaver stances don't maneuver or fight as well as someone using a isosceles or fighting stance. Isosceles works from cover, either side and moving or searching.

A properly fitted shotgun (shorter LOP) brought in tighter to the chest and away from the shoulder is easier to shoot and manage recoil. Low recoil buckshot (inside) or slugs (longer distance) is the way to go for home defense rounds. IMHO.
 
#113 ·
A good fighting stance works. It works for hand to hand, pistol and long gun. I've spent years of simmunitions training where I've been the bad guy and I can tell you that guys that use chapman or weaver stances don't maneuver or fight as well as someone using a isosceles or fighting stance. Isosceles works from cover, either side and moving or searching.

A properly fitted shotgun (shorter LOP) brought in tighter to the chest and away from the shoulder is easier to shoot and manage recoil. Low recoil buckshot (inside) or slugs (longer distance) is the way to go for home defense rounds. IMHO.
Great reply. Thanks for taking the time. LOP- I agree. My stock is telescopic. I’ve now been shortening it and putting it more on my chest like you mentioned. Much better.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ranger1968
#115 ·
clearly there are some people who believe they have a conceptual understanding of open and closed stances. Im not sure that they actually do.

A left lead stance and modified versions of this same stance is one of the most prolific stances on the planet. Perhaps you guys simply know better
 
#116 ·
clearly there are some people who believe they have a conceptual understanding of open and closed stances. Im not sure that they actually do.

A left lead stance and modified versions of this same stance is one of the most prolific stances on the planet. Perhaps you guys simply know better
I'm left-handed so lead with my right foot just a tad. My torso is still pretty square to the target. Well, it is a lot more square than when I shot "Weaver" back in the 80's with a handgun.
 
#119 ·
Yes, it certainly could be that all of the evidence, nearly every modern instructed and everyone else is wrong.
all what evidence

It’s exceedingly common for one old guy, professing out of favor tactics to know better than basically the entire industry.......
nearly the entire industry? really?

Brother, you can subscribe to whatever belief system you want. The bottom line is that the particular level of chaos surrounding a particular situation will dictate far more than what you simply want to do or believe in regarding a "Stance". Once a defender starts moving around, all this tactical kabuki dance stuff is all relative.

If the suggestion is that current conventional wisdom states that a squared up stance is superior, I would say that there are plenty of people who seeming missed the memo

example: https://www.gunsandammo.com/editorial/standing-your-ground-shooting-stance/247979

I wont claim anything about this article other than I tend to agree with what he is saying. He says it quite better than I could and even offered illustrations.

I accept that there is room for more than one camp but I wont pretend that the squared up stance is some novel progression sprinkled with pixie dust or something. There are reasons that bladed, semi bladed and other similar variants have be utilized across the globe for a very long time. The benefits do not suddenly evaporate simply because some guy wants to stand different.
 
#121 · (Edited)
If your stance in an integral part of your ongoing or potential maneuvers, its not really subordinate to those other things, it is "part" of those other things.

can a good stance aid in marksmanship? sure
can a poor stance hinder marksmanship? sure

can it aid movement? sure
can it limit movement? sure

Your stance can easily be the basic foundation for a great many movements. It can also be an important part of your "set up" for key movements. I don't think you can simply say that its less important than [ x ] or [ y ].

can a good stance be conducive to certain dynamic movement? sure
can a poor stance obstruct or hinder certain dynamic movement? sure
 
#123 ·
none of that really overcomes what is written in the article I cited or any of the comments I have made. Its basically a ...nu-uh!

Still, I thank you for the comments. I don't mind disagreement, I offer my thoughts as well as related commentary from individuals more learned than myself in an effort to provide a well rounded discussion for those who may be on the fence. good luck to all.
 
#124 ·
none of that really overcomes what is written in the article I cited or any of the comments I have made. Its basically a ...nu-uh!

Still, I thank you for the comments. I don't mind disagreement, I offer my thoughts as well as related commentary from individuals more learned than myself in an effort to provide a well rounded discussion for those who may be on the fence. good luck to all.

You mean the article where the very first picture says there’s no difference in coverage and then shows the gap between the front plate and side of the vest.....reaaal quality. I didn’t think anything else needed to be said.....


We get it, like the dinosaurs, and those who profess lights don’t belong on guns because people target them, you are incapable or refuse to adapt. It’s ok.

At the end of the day, there’s a reason the whole bladeing stance is preached about as much as cup and saucer pistol shooting. While you may not agree, that doesn’t discount it.
 
#125 ·
I’ve been reading this thread for months wondering how someone could think a bladed stance is more maneuverable. Then I see the pics in that article. I don’t even consider that bladed. Even with a squared off stance it’s normal to have your primary foot and shoulder a little back. I’ve seen plenty of instruction advocating that.
 
#126 · (Edited)
Plenty of people imagine a bladed stance as something that looks like a Kentucky rifleman from the early 1800s. Its not that at all, not now a days and hasn't been for decades. I simply call it semi-bladed and it has been proven to be very conducive to movement.

My Brother up there in the previous post may consider me old and stubborn but he knows nothing about me, my practices or how I have adapted my self defense methodology over the decades. I don't mind the barbs, I have rather thick skin. Honestly, I would much rather learn about the concepts surrounding a persons disagreement but I will settle for ..nu-uh followed by negative overtones if that is all that is offered.

I have less than 6k comments on a board I have visited regularly for 20 years. I may not say much but I try to offer commentary that is productive.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bullman
#127 · (Edited)
Sort of related, well it’s about 3” shells. Nothing about HD, but a friend gave me 5 boxes (25 rd) 3” 7 1/2 shot. While not 00 buck or slugs, it’s still a hard kicker. Shot all of them in a row at clays out of a box stock 870. First thing, I was tagging clays farther out there than anything I have ever shot before, second thing it was a hot day and all I had on was a T shirt. My shoulder was numb. I could not lift my arm over my head for a week and my entire shoulder area was every color of the rainbow. I will never do that again!
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top