I know that this subject is probably redundant but I have a question for the Glock experts. Is the Cerakote finish a better and tougher finish than the factory one?
Glock’s finish while admittedly the gen 4 shows wear quickly is a tennifer in the metal to resist corrosion
I wouldn’t worry about holster wear as any finish is going to show
If you do want to refinish however I’d recommend nitride, many places are offering black nitride refinishing for around 60$
Personally I’m just not a fan of painting my guns cerakote included, they look nice when freshly done but look like a** when worn IMO Showing bare metal
Once again, the misunderstanding of "tennifer" (which is a TM term for a common metal treatment chemical process, done in many industries-- often lumped as "nitriding"). The "tennifer" is a metal treatment to the bare metal, after which the black that you see on the Glock is then applied to the tennifered surface. There are many chemical equivalent processes to the "tennifer" and the trademark term is no longer used with Glock currently-- they just now generically nitride. There have been many variations of the surface black coat used on Glocks over the years, some are obviously different visually and tactilely-- but still independent of the metal treatment.
Be assured that the metal is intrinsically protected by the treatment (corrosion and wear resistant), whether the surface coat looks worn or brand new.
All the concern about the "finish" is just cosmetic.
IMHO, any firearm with cerakote treatment is worth far less than one in factory original finish. Cerakoting does absolutely NOTHING good for pistol function and reliability,. It quite often causes serious problems in those characteristics.
Cerakote your Glock only if style and cosmetics are much more important than function, and you don't mind wasting money to degrade your pistol.
Show us the data in which cerakote makes a gun, specifically a Glock, less reliable lol. I can offer you only my personal experience and my cerakote Glocks have been absolutely reliable.
For the OP, GT is so full of craptastic information. If you want to cerakote, find a reliable shop and have it with confidence. Guns fail, whether black or white. As far as cerakote finish, holster wear may show with repeated use.
Many companies do the ferritic nitrocarburizing using cyanide salts. It is not banned in this country. If you live in a city with industry, there is probably a company in your town that does some form of nitriding.
Good morning bunk, no data to back up Mike-M's post but I can tell you that I've seen it. When the finish is applied too thick, the slide movement can be impeded and the pistol will not function reliably. I'm assuming that's what he means.
I have a G19 with Midnight Bronze Cerakote from Davidson's. The finish was intentionally applied very thing on to the underside of the slide. (Which it should be.) It shoots as well as my other G19s but the color IMO is absolutely stunning. I've tried to capture it with my camera but so far haven't been able to figure out how to show it in all it's grandeur. I just picked up a new camera so hopefully I'll be able to get some decent pictures when I get time to figure out all the different modes and settings.
I color code mine - RED for BFHs, and then ORANGE for lesser hitting-smashing qualities, all the way down to YELLOW for itty-bitty whacking thingys.
Crescent wrenches, although a good substitute for hammers - are not color coded for obvious reasons ---> it'd be totally OCD for someone to do that!
Nutso-people are among us, I'm afraid. Treat them kindly and walk away - s - l - o - w - l - y.
Nobody understands color coded hammers better than someone who has accidentally grabbed the wrong hammer for the job - all because they either weren't color-coded - or the hammer-user is color blind. Or at night.
But YOU can live dangerously if you wanna. Just don't come crying to me when you get hurt... and NEVER use a hammer in the dark.
Good morning bunk, no data to back up Mike-M's post but I can tell you that I've seen it. When the finish is applied too thick, the slide movement can be impeded and the pistol will not function reliably. I'm assuming that's what he means.
I have a G19 with Midnight Bronze Cerakote from Davidson's. The finish was intentionally applied very thing on to the underside of the slide. (Which it should be.) It shoots as well as my other G19s but the color IMO is absolutely stunning. I've tried to capture it with my camera but so far haven't been able to figure out how to show it in all it's grandeur. I just picked up a new camera so hopefully I'll be able to get some decent pictures when I get time to figure out all the different modes and settings.
I think Mike-M’s response is being broadly misinterpreted here. How I read it is that Cerakote is a visual enhancement only...not that it was performance degrading.
Now...of course if applied incorrectly and if allowed to get in slide rails, etc in excess, a temporary performance hindrance may occur, but it’s paint...the force of recoil will chip away at it, and eventually full function will return regardless.
All of that aside, it is not a high speed low drag product, and if you disagree I might point you to the Colt M45A1 CQBP program, in which approx 5000 Tan cerakoted 1911 pistols were returned to Colt by MARSOC for refinishing because simply stated, the Cerakote could not hold up to regular service, much less that in the battle zone. Proof positive can be purchased by any naysayers on GunBroker for ~$5000, as Colt sold those decommissioned rough looking 1911s to the public after decommissioning them.
A new batch was then developed using Colts Ion-Bond, not dissimilar from Glocks nPVD finish on the 19x.
So...short story long...Cerakote is a non-functional coating primarily suited to changing or enhancing the aesthetics of a rifle or pistol, but it’s not a treatment suited for anti-corrosion or otherwise, as its durability is not profound. Having said that, it doesn’t hinder performance.
They ran underpowered ammo in it to try and say their Sig was just as good. If they ran Winchester NATO through it then it would’ve ran fine. Notice the blast in the malfunctioning part of the video compared to the end When the gun no longer malfunctions. They blamed the cerakote on the slide rails and that part is plenty loose on a Glock. The breech to barrel clearance is tighter and if there was going to be an issue it would be there before the rails. Cerakote is applied at a thickness of 3 mils and the elite series rivals the coefficient of friction of Teflon.
If you Cerekote a black Glock frame some kind of fruity designer color, the Cerekote will wear off and the black will show through and it will look like total crap in about six months to a year's time.
Compared to Glock's nitride finish, (Some generations are better than others) Cerekote isn't a particularly durable finish on metal either. I have a Gen3 G20SF that I bought new in 2012 and it's seen a lot of use and still looks great. I have a smith and Wesson revolver that suffered rust damage that I cerekoted in 2012 and has seen little use but is showing wear.
I've actually heard that a G19x frame can be dyed black using Rit dye and if that were true, which I doubt, then all you'd need would be a Gen 5 G19 slide to make it look like a normal gun, but that's too much work and expense even though life is too short to own a putrid looking Coyote Turd Yellow gun.
Have you gotten a chance to actually look at the 19X in person? I gotta say that I felt the same until I met one in real life (and I wish I bought that one, mine is nice but that one was better). The frame is pretty meh, but some of the slides are more of a deep copper and really look nice.
Regardless you are missing out on a fine gun. Mine has the best stock Glock trigger I've encountered, bar none (yes I prefer it to the nice Gen 3 '-' triggers).
You know when they release it in black it'll have that foolish Gen 5/2 cutout and ruin the trigger. It'll happen, I'm sure of it.
Cerakote is indeed purely cosmetic and inevitably wears down. If I had raw steel or some sketchy nitriding, I’d go for something a little more durable. While not popular because it doesn’t look tactical, hard chrome is likely the most durable surface coating. Something like the stuff offered by Metaloy.
Good morning bunk, no data to back up Mike-M's post but I can tell you that I've seen it. When the finish is applied too thick, the slide movement can be impeded and the pistol will not function reliably. I'm assuming that's what he means.
I have a G19 with Midnight Bronze Cerakote from Davidson's. The finish was intentionally applied very thing on to the underside of the slide. (Which it should be.) It shoots as well as my other G19s but the color IMO is absolutely stunning. I've tried to capture it with my camera but so far haven't been able to figure out how to show it in all it's grandeur. I just picked up a new camera so hopefully I'll be able to get some decent pictures when I get time to figure out all the different modes and settings.
No, he is condescending to those who don't like what he likes. It makes him angry when people do what he wouldn't. Look at his pathetic statements in other threads. He can't back up what he claimed. Sure, there is cerkote than can be poorly applied and then problems may arise. Then there is cerakote that is applied by a pro and works like a charm. How do I know? Well, my personal cerakote guns have all worked fantastic. My Gen 4 G19 is closing in on 8000 rounds, cerakoted from day one. A sig 229 I have is cerakoted, 5000 rounds and running strong. My glock 34, full cerakote, never a malfunction, stoppage, anything...yet. My list gets longer.
Anyway, certain people continually state opinion as fact, all the while attempting to put down those who do what they don't like. Tough ****, get over it.
I’ve only had one slide C’koted. The slide was a matte stainless from the factory and I just preferred black so a local smith said he’d Kote it for $50. It looked very nice when I got it back and I’ve had no adverse reliability issues after putting about 2500 rounds through it. Finish durability is a whole different issue though. The coating scratches quite easily and has worn off in rub areas completely. Whether it was applied wrong or not I really doubt I’ll ever have anything sprayed again. It’s a beater gun so I’m not that concerned with appearance.
Actually I have read many of those threads on different forums, and often they get stuck on what tenifer actually is and what gens have what finish and don’t answer the questions I have
"Frying pan" is really a subjective term of how owners perceived the visual texture of their gun. Not all that refer to the "frying pan" are necessarily referring to the same thing, because all frying pans look different (some are glossy, slippery, some are matte like seasoned cast iron, and the shades in between). So the terms "frying pan finish" is very deceiving because not the same coatings are being referenced.
Even in the same serial number series, slides may have been split between different service providers...unless someone knows specifically. Also possibility of environmental conditions (light, humidity, and and temperature) can affect the coating-- such that the same coating can look different in the same production line.
"Frying pan" is really a subjective term of how owners perceived the visual texture of their gun. Not all that refer to the "frying pan" are necessarily referring to the same thing, because all frying pans look different (some are glossy, slippery, some are matte like seasoned cast iron, and the shades in between). So the terms "frying pan finish" is very deceiving because not the same coatings are being referenced.
My favorite flavor of "frying pan finish" is the "Orange Peel Frying Pan Finish". On a car, orange peel in a paint job would be bad, but with a Glock frying pan finish, it really adds some pizazz and a bit of kick and feel to the texture...
My question then: is salt bath nitriding (formerly known as tenifer, or other chemical equivalents) also performed on the metal prior to nDLC application? I would guess not, because that would be redundant, and at un-necessary cost.
This is the million dollar question. I’m really hoping there is still some kind of nitriding. It wouldn’t be redundant because nitriding adds serious hardness and wear resistance. I really believe the cost effective application of Tennifer to relatively cheap, easy-to-machine steel was the magic innovation of Glock, perhaps even moreso than the use of polymer frames.
Nitriding also prevents rust on wear areas such as barrel smileys.
I have a Gen5, I have not shot. After 1000-3000 rounds, we will see what happens to parts that rub. Even diamond wears under extreme pressure (think phonograph needle), but then so will the micron layer of nitrided steel, as it can be cut and milled.
Time will tell as I'm sure folks will start to complain soon about "missing the Tenifer" or "missing the frying pan" without understanding the complexity or the nuance of how Glock changed the consumer expectation on commercially available handguns, and forced all other gun companies to follow suit, or wither. Prior to Glock, all the guns were oxide or phosphorus, or had to have the shiny nickel plating or chrome. This has even bled into the AR market as Nitriding, Nickel Boron, Ti-Nitride, PVD's are becoming the AR boutique items.
None of these processes are new, they have been used in aerospace, automotive and heavy industry to improve tools and parts. I think Glock was the first to treat barrels and slides.
Nothing wrong with Gen 4 finish, or any GLOCK finish. Ceracoat is not better. A friend messed up a Ruger (not as much a loss) by having that put on. Mistake.
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