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9mm, 40, 45?? Which is "Best?" Don't overthink it!

38K views 622 replies 183 participants last post by  Christopher67 
#1 ·
Just killing Thanksgiving morning fellas and looking over the posts in this forum:)

FWIW: Some of you are obsessing over caliber choice to the point where it is ridiculous.

I am a retired LEO from NY. I did 6 years in patrol and 18 in SWAT. During that time I have seen for myself or was present for the aftermath of probably hundreds of shootings with all types of weapons from handguns up to 223 and 308 rifles. I remember seeing a guy hit dead center mass with a 22lr die within a minute, yet another person hit in the same place with a JHP 357mag (was still standing when I got there) tell me what happened, who shot him, etc and survive. I also saw a guy hit with a 223 go down after getting hit in the left torso...lose a lung but survived too. I remember another time when a suspect was struck in the arm with a single 9mm round die from a heart attack but yet another guy was riddled with MP5 9mm rounds died only after being shot in the head with a 308 round.

I guess that my point is this: don't obsess over which caliber is best because I don't think that it matters much because bodies do strange things. There isn't a damm bit of difference between getting shot in the same place by a 9mm, 40, or 45 round with good/modern bullets...that's for damm sure.

With that in mind, I would carry a minimum of a 38/9mm in a gun that I shoot well.

FWIW: I ONLY carry a G19 with Speer 124gr Gold Dots because it was my duty weapon and I am 1,000% sure that the G19 is the best weapon for me. I like the fact that it holds 16 rounds which I would rather have than 8 with a 45ACP. I had a G23 for a while but I sold it because I didn't like the recoil and increased muzzle blast of the 40cal for an insignificant/irrelevant increase in "stopping power."

Just my 2cents:)
 
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#4 ·
If you choose your anecdotes you can "prove" virtually anything, including that falling out of an airplane at 30,000 ft. without a parachute won't kill you. If calibers don't matter then there is no difference between FMJs and JHPs either as far as probability of incapacitation. Don't bother with more expensive JHPs then. Carry on.
 
#14 ·
I


Put your reading glasses on


QED, I assumed you would understand that the point of my post is that minute/insignificant differences between 9mm, 49, and 45, don't mean anything.

I don't know where you got your JHP/FMJ comment from but i'll bite...if we were limited to FMJ bullets then I would say that bigger bullet diameter WOULD matter because 45 would make a bigger hole than a 9mm, but who uses FMJ for self defense anymore?? I don't know of even one person who does.

Again I'll say that it looks like you missed my point but in a nutshell it is this: use a 9mm and up cartridge with modern hollow points in a gun that you shoot well and caliber differences won't amount to a hill of beans.

As for my personal "anecdotes," I only posted them to prove the point of my post.

Did you ever shoot another human being or did you ever see (in person) another human being that has been shot?
 
#6 ·
Just killing Thanksgiving morning fellas and looking over the posts in this forum:)

FWIW: Some of you are obsessing over caliber choice to the point where it is ridiculous.

I am a retired LEO from NY. I did 6 years in patrol and 18 in SWAT. During that time I have seen for myself or was present for the aftermath of probably hundreds of shootings with all types of weapons from handguns up to 223 and 308 rifles. I remember seeing a guy hit dead center mass with a 22lr die within a minute, yet another person hit in the same place with a JHP 357mag (was still standing when I got there) tell me what happened, who shot him, etc and survive. I also saw a guy hit with a 223 go down after getting hit in the left torso...lose a lung but survived too. I remember another time when a suspect was struck in the arm with a single 9mm round die from a heart attack but yet another guy was riddled with MP5 9mm rounds died only after being shot in the head with a 308 round.

I guess that my point is this: don't obsess over which caliber is best because I don't think that it matters much because bodies do strange things. There isn't a damm bit of difference between getting shot in the same place by a 9mm, 40, or 45 round with good/modern bullets...that's for damm sure.

With that in mind, I would carry a minimum of a 38/9mm in a gun that I shoot well.

FWIW: I ONLY carry a G19 with Speer 124gr Gold Dots because it was my duty weapon and I am 1,000% sure that the G19 is the best weapon for me. I like the fact that it holds 16 rounds which I would rather have than 8 with a 45ACP. I had a G23 for a while but I sold it because I didn't like the recoil and increased muzzle blast of the 40cal for an insignificant/irrelevant increase in "stopping power."

Just my 2cents:)
You do know that this horse has been obsessed over and beaten countless times before and and it never ends well? Nothing is ever learned and no ones mind is ever changed. I suppose another Tenifer thread next or maybe a Glock 43 vs. S&W Shield thread next?
 
#28 ·
Any will do the job if the shooter is up to it.
I think it's a very rare shooter that's up to it. For people who haven't done a lot of practice in stressful conditions, the "heat" of a weekend IDPA match or a range qualification usually overloads them to the point where the limited skills they have break down.
 
#8 ·
Same as the question of which ammo. What can you put 10 rounds in a pie plate size target from about 10 feet in under 3-5 seconds?
My vote is .40, but YMMV
 
#20 ·
Just killing Thanksgiving morning fellas and looking over the posts in this forum:)

FWIW: Some of you are obsessing over caliber choice to the point where it is ridiculous.

I am a retired LEO from NY. I did 6 years in patrol and 18 in SWAT. During that time I have seen for myself or was present for the aftermath of probably hundreds of shootings with all types of weapons from handguns up to 223 and 308 rifles. I remember seeing a guy hit dead center mass with a 22lr die within a minute, yet another person hit in the same place with a JHP 357mag (was still standing when I got there) tell me what happened, who shot him, etc and survive. I also saw a guy hit with a 223 go down after getting hit in the left torso...lose a lung but survived too. I remember another time when a suspect was struck in the arm with a single 9mm round die from a heart attack but yet another guy was riddled with MP5 9mm rounds died only after being shot in the head with a 308 round.

I guess that my point is this: don't obsess over which caliber is best because I don't think that it matters much because bodies do strange things. There isn't a damm bit of difference between getting shot in the same place by a 9mm, 40, or 45 round with good/modern bullets...that's for damm sure.

With that in mind, I would carry a minimum of a 38/9mm in a gun that I shoot well.

FWIW: I ONLY carry a G19 with Speer 124gr Gold Dots because it was my duty weapon and I am 1,000% sure that the G19 is the best weapon for me. I like the fact that it holds 16 rounds which I would rather have than 8 with a 45ACP. I had a G23 for a while but I sold it because I didn't like the recoil and increased muzzle blast of the 40cal for an insignificant/irrelevant increase in "stopping power."

Just my 2cents:)
.40 has great penetration, expands to a large size, is affordable, and doesn't have too much recoil. What's not to like?
 
#377 ·
Most of what I have read is good commentary until I come across the argumentive stuff.
I read the man to say 9 mm and up with good hollow points in a gun you shoot well is the best advice.
Had 2 of the little sigs in 9 mm, dandy pistols, easy slide. A bit peppy for the weight. Got rid of them and went to Ruger sp101 in .357 5 shot. Total confidence.
Also , note also, carry a Glock g41 in .45 cal, with extra mag. Got rid of 3 qty g23 as seemed to me they were 9mm on steroids or crack cocain. The .45 with Speer gold dot or Winchester ranger expand to appx 3/4 of an inch, makes me very comfortable. Especially when you view the 6 petals opened up ! Never witnessed a shooting or autopsy ,
 
#21 · (Edited)
[QUOTE="QED,
I couldn't possibly see enough shootings to be an "expert," but I have carefully analyzed many detailed autopsies instead. You carry on and have fun.[/QUOTE]

Tell me, have you see even ONE person shot?

Are you a medical examiner??

You "carefully analysed many detailed autopsy reports." LOL! As a layman, do you even know how to analyse an autopsy report?? Think about what you just said.

Either way it means that you are basing your comments/opinion on what you read somewhere.

Label my anecdotes whatever you like but I based my opinions after what I did myself, saw, and experienced in real life...not from reading magazines, reading autopsy reports (really now, that IS Funny!" or from listening to fellow commando's at the gunshop and shooting range.

How is it that you say that my opinion is "baseless?" I told you twice already what I based my opinion on.

So far the only thing that you said that makes sense is that I contradicted myself regarding my bullet diameter comment....yes the 45 makes a bigger hole than the 9mm but what i'm trying to articulate is that a modern JHP in 9mm does a good enough job to not worry about a few more hundredths of an inch of frontal area....I will take the extra 9 rounds over the extra bullet diameter....this IS MY opinion...someone else might prefer a 45....which goes back to my original point that a 9mm and up sized caliber with good modern hollowpoint ammo in a gun you shoot really well is all you can ask for.

PS: If you ever make it to NYC I can arrange a ride along for you on 4-12pm shift so that you can (for sure) see a shooting/homicide victim for yourself...then at least you can say that you saw the effects of a REAL gunshot wound instead of relying on "autopsy reports" gun magazines, and bull****.

Hope that you are having a great Thanksgiving!
 
#23 ·
So far the only thing that you said that makes sense is that I contradicted myself regarding my bullet diameter comment....yes the 45 makes a bigger hole than the 9mm but my thought is that a modern JHP bullet does a good enough job to not worry about a few more hundredths of an inch of frontal area....I will take the extra 9 rounds over the extra bullet diameter....this is MY opinion...someone else might want the 45....which goes back to my origional point that a 9mm and up sized caliber with good modern hollowpoint ammo in a gun you shoot reall well is all you can ask for.
I'll ignore your baseless but presumptive comments at the top of your post; for all you know I could be a ME. Now back to ballistics facts, which certainly don't seem to be your strong suit -- but is the topic of your post. Assuming equal penetration, an expanded .45 ACP JHP is typically quite a bit more than a few hundredths of an inch in diameter v. 9mm JHP; in any case it's the bullet frontal area that matters and in .45ACP JHPs it's typically 60% greater than in 9mm JHPs. So logic dictates that if 60% increase in frontal area is deemed desirable if FMJs are used, such increase in frontal area is also desirable if JHPs are used. But since you obviously entertain the notion that 9mm is powerful enough as a tissue crusher--that additional 60% doesn't mean a hill of beans.
PS: If you ever make it to NYC I can arrange a ride along for you on 4-12pm shift so that you will surely see a shooting/homicide victim for yourself...then at least say that you saw the effects of a real gunshot wound instead of relying on "autopsy reports" gun magazines, and bull****ting sessions.
Thanks, but no thanks. You might be amazed how much relevant detail is provided in autopsy reports. No blood or guts though, so perhaps such information doesn't mean much to you.

Hope that you are having a great Thanksgiving!
Likewise, and have fun.
 
#33 ·
I enjoy and carry all three (9mm, .40, .45 ACP)

I slightly prefer 9mm and have more pistols in that caliber.

I tend to be a capacity whore. I see it as more rounds in the gun = more opportunity to stop the threat before slide lock. Bonus that I can shoot 9mm even +P/+P+ faster and more accurately than .45 and especially .40 S&W.

I will say that my favorite antipersonnel handgun cartridge would happen to be the Federal HST .45 ACP +P. 230 grains at 950 FPS with almost an inch in expansion followed by the 180 grain HST in .40 and the 147 grain +P HST in 9mm.

I believe for CCW, 9mm is where it’s at. That said, .40 is a really great choice as well given the same platform size G26/27, G19/23 etc.

I see the .45 ACP as more of a cartridge for a full size duty/home defense handgun.
 
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