Ive had my G20 for a while now, I've mostly put cheap Armscor stuff thought it, that when I bought it I knew it wasn't hot. So finally I got a chance to pick up some full power 10mm, some 180s running right around 1300 or so. Definitely attention getting.
Ive seen differing opinions of the recoil spring for the gen4s. Some people change them to a heavier ones seeming because "its what you do" others Ive seen says the gen4 dual RSA is better at handling the full power stuff in the g20 and a different spring is unnecessary.
I think I can make my own determinations on that, but the real question is if the stock spring were too light how would I know? I hear things like the full power loads will beat up your gun, what specifically am I looking for in that regard? things like that.
You want to look at the frame right in front of the front slide lugs. This is the area where the slide right under where the spring perch will contact the frame under recoil.
If you see no damage or just a slight impression of the slide, you are fine. If you see heavy battering and some mushrooming of the plastic there, then you need more spring.
You want to look at the frame right in front of the front slide lugs. This is the area where the slide right under where the spring perch will contact the frame under recoil.
If you see no damage or just a slight impression of the slide, you are fine. If you see heavy battering and some mushrooming of the plastic there, then you need more spring.
What we willy said makes sense.
The recoil spring replacement interval “should” be at around 5 thousand rounds.
As long as the gun is functioning with your choice of ammo no need to change, unless you see evidence of battering like willy stated
Before Glocks we would look at how far our cases flew to see if we had the right poundage in 1911s. I have a 20 that I don't shoot a lot, it's my woods gun for bowhunting. From what I have read over the years is the 22lb is pretty safe for both standard (weak) and hot (normal) 10mm loads. As far as what brand spring I'm not sure but what WeeWilly uses would probably be a good choice.
What say you WeeWilly?
I have a 22lb ISMI flat wire on a Stainless GR for both my G20 and G21 (I shoot Supers in it). The 22lb ISMI spring seems to keep my slide off my frame with my hottest 10mm handloads (over 1300fps for 180's) and also allows my 40S&W loads to cycle 100%.
I think the right spring is a bit of a moving target as grip, strength of hands and wrist can play a role in what spring works best from a frame battering perspective. If you are a brick layer, you may need a heavier spring with my loads to keep the slide off the frame as you will be hindering frame rearward movement under recoil more than my grip so the slide comes back with more energy, etc.
Also, the Gen 4 RSA tend to stack up (at least when they are newer), such that they will halt any slide to frame contact under even the hottest loads, so there is that to consider as well.
On a Gen 4 gun, I would shoot whatever I wanted with the stock RSA and just keep an eye on the frame in front of the slide lugs. If you start to see more than a light imprint, maybe pickup a 22lb spring and give it a go.
Is that picture of the frame cleaned? I stopped messing around with aftermarket RSAs on my 20 Gen4. Because of the need for an adapter I never had luck with aftermarket RSAs. I had a 22lb spring that could not even pass a recoil spring test but the stock rsa could.
This is the front my rails on my G17 gen 4, my brothers G22 gen 4 is worse..his has rubbing on the inside portions of the locking lugs and is showing small areas of the metal meneth the polymer
That doesn't look too bad, as far as the lug metal showing, I wouldn't worry too much about that, some new guns come with enough plastic missing in that area it is showing before the gun is shot.
When the mushrooming gets really bad, the plastic can close down over the RSA, inhibiting function.
How long has it been (how many rounds, what type of loads) since you replaced your RSA?
Along with the frame peening, actually 'feeling' the slide ram the frame. The frame will take a good beating before it begins to show mushrooming, so if you feel the slide ramming the frame, you should switch to a new one, IMO. Getting rid of excess battering lets you control the pistol, better, too.
After close to 4000 rds through the G40 (same RSA as G20, although heavier slide), I have not had any indication the RSA is failing to prevent slide to frame contact, no FTE or FTF, plus the original OEM RSA still passes the Return to Battery check. Nearly all the rounds through the G40 have been what I consider 'medium' power loads; 150gr JHP@1400fps, 155grFMJ@1300fps,165gr PlatedTC@1267fps. In addition, I have slightly less than 100 rds of "full power" loads through the OEM 6" barrel and no issues with the OEM RSA; 200gr JHP@1228fps, 190gr Solid Copper@1215fps.
However, after recently adding a KKM 7" match barrel with tighter, fully supported chamber, allowing for heavier handloads for Bear/Woods Defense (200gr JHP@1302fps, 190gr Solid Copper@1340fps), I noticed the frame in front of the front slide lugs is being peened back, forming a lip. I'm adding an aftermarket RSA with heavier spring for use ONLY with the KKM barrel and maximum Woods Defense loads, mostly as insurance to protect the frame from damage, and any potential FTF/FTE.
Based on my limited experience, the recommendation to replace the OEM 10mm RSA after 3000 rounds seems to be exceedingly conservative; even 5000 rounds seems conservative.
As others recommend, there is little need to replace the original OEM RSA unless the RTB check fails, there is a FTF/FTE problem, or evidence of slide to frame contact.
After close to 4000 rds through the G40 (same RSA as G20, although heavier slide), I have not had any indication the RSA is failing to prevent slide to frame contact, no FTE or FTF, plus the original OEM RSA still passes the Return to Battery check. Nearly all the rounds through the G40 have been what I consider 'medium' power loads; 150gr JHP@1400fps, 155grFMJ@1300fps,165gr PlatedTC@1267fps. In addition, I have slightly less than 100 rds of "full power" loads through the OEM 6" barrel and no issues with the OEM RSA; 200gr JHP@1228fps, 190gr Solid Copper@1315fps.
However, after recently adding a KKM 7" match barrel with tighter, fully supported chamber, allowing for heavier handloads for Bear/Woods Defense (200gr JHP@1302fps, 190gr Solid Copper@1340fps), I noticed the frame in front of the front slide lugs is being peened back, forming a lip. I'm adding an aftermarket RSA with heavier spring for use ONLY with the KKM barrel and maximum Woods Defense loads, mostly as insurance to protect the frame from damage, and any potential FTF/FTE.
Based on my limited experience, the recommendation to replace the OEM 10mm RSA after 3000 rounds seems to be exceedingly conservative; even 5000 rounds seems conservative.
As others recommend, there is little need to replace the original OEM RSA unless the RTB check fails, there is a FTF/FTE problem, or evidence of frame to slide impact.
Would a shock buff from Wilson Combat work? I’m not sure because I’ve never used one but I would think it would help protect the frame. They are 1/10 in. Thick so I don’t know if that would change any reliability? Like I said I’m not sure and would like to know myself. I normally don’t like to add anything that doesn’t have to be there.
RSA RTB check: Clear the weapon, elevate muzzle to 45º or more, pull and hold trigger, hand rack slide to full open, slowly ease slide to full closed. The RSA spring should have enough power to return the slide to battery. If the slide does not fully return to battery, the RSA is too weak. (Note: Test to be done with a cleaned and properly lubricated weapon.)
Everyone is different. You can have the same gun, same ammo act differently with two different shooters. With my G20 i went around and around with the aftermarket crap, in the end, stock was the best option. It worked everytime, if you can shoot hot loads so much that it damages your gun, send it to glock for warranty.
That is very true. Just a persons grip or the strength in his hands can greatly affect how much battering will occur, even with the hottest loads. Definitely a three dimensional problem.
When the spring gets "WEAK", the symptoms are casings get thrown a long distance (depending on the charge- but factory range ammo will land typically inside 10ft radius), or the slide has failure to return to battery. Manufacturers rec 5000 round recoil changes, but that is like 3K mile oil changes-- WAAAAY overkill, and wastage of motor oil on a massive earth killing scale.
Slide bashing is a state of mind, since that area where the Glock slide impacts the frame has a piece of horizontal half pipe metal embedded under the polymer (that you may or not be able to see) that will never really wear out in earthly terms-- the polymer might look like it it is de-laminating, but the metal is underneath will continue to hold up.
If you can currently afford enough 10mm ammo to wear out your frame, you certainly can afford another Glock (costs less than a new smartphone, a years worth of SLING TV, or a set of tires).
When the spring gets "WEAK", the symptoms are casings get thrown a long distance (depending on the charge- but factory range ammo will land typically inside 10ft radius), or the slide has failure to return to battery. Manufacturers rec 5000 round recoil changes, but that is like 3K mile oil changes-- WAAAAY overkill, and wastage of motor oil on a massive earth killing scale.
Slide bashing is a state of mind, since that area where the Glock slide impacts the frame has a piece of horizontal half pipe metal embedded under the polymer (that you may or not be able to see) that will never really wear out in earthly terms-- the polymer might look like it it is de-laminating, but the metal is underneath will continue to hold up.
If you can currently afford enough 10mm ammo to wear out your frame, you certainly can afford another Glock (costs less than a new smartphone, a years worth of SLING TV, or a set of tires).
Clearly a man who has never fired a 180gr slug at 1300 fps in a stock 10mm Glock. The cases land in the next zip code unless you are shooting with a comp and that ain't stock.
What's grip have to do with frame wear? Seeing internet pictures of examples, may (could,should) only mean one in a million (or perhaps 2 mill) owned and used Glocks around the world ...again I ask how many rounds did he have to fire to get to that condition? I could show you pics of horrible skin diseases, but that does not mean you could get it if you tried.
If he spent $5K on ammo, to wreck a $200 gun frame, are we not worrying about the wrong thing?
Symptoms of a worn RS: see above. Buying baby life insurance is a waste of money on a statistical basis.
What's grip have to do with frame wear? Seeing internet pictures of examples, may (could,should) only mean one in a million (or perhaps 2 mill) owned and used Glocks around the world ...again I ask how many rounds did he have to fire to get to that condition? I could show you pics of horrible skin diseases, but that does not mean you could get it if you tried.
If he spent $5K on ammo, to wreck a $200 gun frame, are we not worrying about the wrong thing?
Symptoms of a worn RS: see above. Buying baby life insurance is a waste of money on a statistical basis.
Well actually, your lack of experience with the gun and hot rounds is showing again. If you have a very firm grip, the slide with come back with much more energy, causing more slide to frame impact (and cases that fly farther, remember that?). A person shooting one where the gun is allowed to absorb the recoil energy by moving violently up and back (weaker grip), will see far less frame battering and cases will land closer. It is a physics thing.
You are saying that if you can have a light enough grip, the gun won't batter the frame as much, and the cases won't fly as far? Your hand/arms need to be made of string.
seriously.... can anyone shoot that way, and for how many rounds until the death of the frame?
Again, I ask how much HOT ammo (how much will it cost in your HOT ammo prices) does it take to ruin any Glock frame?
You are saying that if you can have a light enough grip, the gun won't batter the frame as much, and the cases won't fly as far? Your hand/arms need to be made of string.
seriously.... can anyone shoot that way, and for how many rounds until the death of the frame?
Again, I ask how much HOT ammo (how much will it cost in your HOT ammo prices) does it take to ruin any Glock frame?
I already told you it clearly depends. If you don't understand you can have radical difference is function with a semi auto handgun, based solely on the grip, arms, stance the shooter takes, I can only assume you have far less experience with this stuff than your indignation might suggest.
If you had paid any attention at all on these and other GT threads regarding G20 frame battering with hot loads (because you clearly don't have one, have never shot one with the kinds of loads we are talking about) you would have picked up on how widely the experience can be. One frequent poster on these threads, at least within a few years, bought a Gen 4 G20 asked the GT community what recoil spring weight he should use for running UW 180gr ammo (180gr at 1300fps). The consensus he took away was a 24lb spring on stainless GR (not my recommendation). On his first time out he got fairly serious frame battering and posted the results with pictures. Frankly I was very surprised as my 22lb spring on a stainless GR in my G20sf keeps the slide off the frame, even with loads hotter than the UW stuff. So again, I will tell you, it depends.
Finally, "ruined" is kind of a loaded word, as most people change something when what they are running starts damaging things, long before it is "ruined".
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