3 blown up guns in one match of 85 shooters yesterday. Two were with the same ammo, one was another caliber. Two were glocks, one a STI. No one hurt but weird to see that much reloading error on a match. I suspect double charge in all instances. The two glocks were toast, broken/cracked frames, ejectors & mag release blown out. The STI apparently only split the grips.
Supposedly the 9mm/Glock KB were 124gr bullets over CFE. I am not even sure you can get a double into a 9mm case without it almost spilling over. The STI/40 was a TG load & 180gr bullets. Both loaded on dillon 550. So be diligent out there guys & gals.
It can and does happen...even to a Glock...but I am with you, how do you miss a dbl charge with a 9mm case?...seems it would be difficult to do unless seriously distracted while loading
Jeez. Something in the water that day? Glad nobody was hurt. Thanks for the reminder to be on our toes.
I keep the one and only squib load that has gone through my guns, front and center on the shelf of my loading bench. I'm actually not convinced that I loaded the squib since that spent case had a brass colored primer, and the batch I was shooting from had CCI primers. It's possible I picked up a round in the pit that had been soaking up some wet weather, thinking it was mine, and tossed it into the ammo box. Either way, it is a reminder to be diligent.
Saw one on a Glock at the local match about a month ago. I talked to the guy about what his load before it happened and thought it was way above max. Guess I was right. I don’t remember specifics, but it was something like 4.5 gr of TG over 147
3 blown up guns in one match of 85 shooters yesterday. Two were with the same ammo, one was another caliber. Two were glocks, one a STI. No one hurt but weird to see that much reloading error on a match. I suspect double charge in all instances. The two glocks were toast, broken/cracked frames, ejectors & mag release blown out. The STI apparently only split the grips.
Supposedly the 9mm/Glock KB were 124gr bullets over CFE. I am not even sure you can get a double into a 9mm case without it almost spilling over. The STI/40 was a TG load & 180gr bullets. Both loaded on dillon 550. So be diligent out there guys & gals.
The CFE is very puzzling. A double (a distinct possibility on a 550B) would be something in the 10+grs and be all over the shellplate. With CFE's burn rate, setback isn't going to break anything. Very weird. I wonder if he was loading something else and doubled a few? Strange.
TG under 180gr slugs, loaded on a 550B by an ADD loader, yeah, I can see that one all day long.
It's really just a matter of looking in the cases, same as looking at the sights. Fast, slow, drunk, dumpster fire, whatever - just see what you need to see before you continue.
Do you mean the same shooter continued using the batch of ammo that blew up one of his guns?
It's called humble pie and a ballistic hammer. Sometimes you need to tuck tail and go home early.
3 blown up guns in one match of 85 shooters yesterday. Two were with the same ammo, one was another caliber. Two were glocks, one a STI. No one hurt but weird to see that much reloading error on a match. I suspect double charge in all instances. The two glocks were toast, broken/cracked frames, ejectors & mag release blown out. The STI apparently only split the grips.
Supposedly the 9mm/Glock KB were 124gr bullets over CFE. I am not even sure you can get a double into a 9mm case without it almost spilling over. The STI/40 was a TG load & 180gr bullets. Both loaded on dillon 550. So be diligent out there guys & gals.
Thanks for the heads up Fred. I look inside each case before I place the bullet to be seated. And only a very light crimp, no marks or just slight mark on my jacketed bullets.
I preach this all the time to noob reloaders, resist becoming a handle puller, look at every powder charge before seating a bullet. I dont care how man powder check systems you have, everything fails, visually check the powder charge.
The CFE is very puzzling. A double (a distinct possibility on a 550B) would be something in the 10+grs and be all over the shellplate. With CFE's burn rate, setback isn't going to break anything. Very weird. I wonder if he was loading something else and doubled a few? Strange.
TG under 180gr slugs, loaded on a 550B by an ADD loader, yeah, I can see that one all day long.
CFE is a spherical powder and sphericals can be a bit moody at times. For instance with ARs one common thread with serious disfunctions H335 is often involved , more often than other powders. It does beg the question whether CFE, in spite of burn, behaves erratically on setback in the 9mm. ? Ball/sphericals(with nitroglycerin content) often behave perfectly normally with linear increase in charge until the pressure reaches a threshold level then burn rate apparently becomes unpredictable.
Maybe I will work up some tests. I wonder with a 124gr slug, if you can get enough CFE in the case to break a 9mm Glock? I know with anything close to normal seating depths, you can't with BE86.
Those reloaders that are prone to being distracted should stick to Unique when reloading 9x19; if I recall correctly, 5.5 gr of Unique darn near fills the case about 90% or so...; that would make it quite a challenge to miss a double-charge.
Saw one on a Glock at the local match about a month ago. I talked to the guy about what his load before it happened and thought it was way above max. Guess I was right. I don’t remember specifics, but it was something like 4.5 gr of TG over 147
This gun wasn’t in pieces, but the mag shot out and his hands were stinging, minor bleeding. I seem to remember commenting on the seemingly high charge and he said it was still set that way from when he was using lighter bullets. I pretty much just walked away at that point, not wanting to push the issue and be confrontational. Not to derail this thread, but how pushy should I have been?
The CFE is very puzzling. A double (a distinct possibility on a 550B) would be something in the 10+grs and be all over the shellplate. With CFE's burn rate, setback isn't going to break anything. Very weird. I wonder if he was loading something else and doubled a few? Strange.
TG under 180gr slugs, loaded on a 550B by an ADD loader, yeah, I can see that one all day long.
Do you mean the same shooter continued using the batch of ammo that blew up one of his guns?
It's called humble pie and a ballistic hammer. Sometimes you need to tuck tail and go home early.
Speculating on what happened isn't going to fix whatever happened. Bad practices during reloading can cause issues. We all know that. Let's move along.
Asked Hodgdon about this and they basically declined comment, lawyers ruin a lot of things. Anyhoo a 380 with a 100 gr bullet uses 4.0 max @ 19000PSI. Hypothesizing 124 gr bullet sitting directly on 4.0 gr of CFE will produce more than the 19000PSI published for the 380 with 100 gr and 4.0 gr CFE. Will the case hold 8.0 gr?
Problem is you can not extrapolate pressures as you pass max. Most powders start going vertical on the pressure scale after max. Some more so than others. Maybe one of you guys that loads CFE can put 8gr in the case & post a pic. I am just curious how this could have happened. I call them teaching moments for my reloading students.
One reason I still like my old Lyman Spar T manual press. I do one stage at a time. Charging each case I put them in a loading tray that holds 50 rounds. It's easy to visually check each case. Then I start a bullet in each, and run them thru the seating die. I had a progressive once and although it was faster, I was constantly pulling a round and weighing the powder because I worried about the accuracy.
Anyhow, sometimes slower is more fun. :fred:
One reason I still like my old Lyman Spar T manual press. I do one stage at a time. Charging each case I put them in a loading tray that holds 50 rounds. It's easy to visually check each case. Then I start a bullet in each, and run them thru the seating die. I had a progressive once and although it was faster, I was constantly pulling a round and weighing the powder because I worried about the accuracy.
Anyhow, sometimes slower is more fun. :fred:
Yet 100s of guns have been blown up reloading ss press. You still have to verify charges & not everyone does it properly. I can't tell you how many times I have heard; "I check all my cases with a flashlight before seating". Which is the wrong technique for loading on a ss press if that is all you do IMO.
All cases go primer up in the block. Take them & charge them one at a time & seat the bullet. It would be impossible to dbl or squib at that point.
I load on a 650, recently upgraded from a Square Deal B. With auto indexing it's pretty hard to double charge. On a 550 I could see it.
The only blown up gun I've seen in many years of shooting was due to the shooter loading two .45 lc bullets into the case. Get enough gunk built up in your seating die and it can grab a bullet then push it down on top of the next bullet that comes through. That will blow up a gun in a hurry.
I use a powder check, but I don't visually check every single round for powder.
Wow, three OOB in one day. I am surprised nobody has thought of it. And the dog ate my load manual. And the first thing that comes up on Google for "kaboom" is a bathroom cleanser.
But seriously, I am in the gross overload camp, and just chance that it happened to two batches of ammo the same day. I saw two Glocks have relatively minor case head ruptures by consecutive shooters at a match. Different models, different calibers, different powders. Relatively minor = magazines and extractors blown out, no damage to major parts.
The only blown up gun I've seen in many years of shooting was due to the shooter loading two .45 lc bullets into the case. Get enough gunk built up in your seating die and it can grab a bullet then push it down on top of the next bullet that comes through. That will blow up a gun in a hurry.
I read about that on the SASS wire. Podnuh demolished a single action and was just adamant that he could not have doubled the powder like everybody concluded, it must have "detonated." A couple of guys volunteered to watch him loading. So they did until one said "We agree, there is no way you could get in a double charge of powder. But you just put two bullets in that one."
Not possible with a 9mm but you must keep an open mind.
Saw one on a Glock at the local match about a month ago. I talked to the guy about what his load before it happened and thought it was way above max. Guess I was right. I don’t remember specifics, but it was something like 4.5 gr of TG over 147
One of my primary beefs against TG is waaaay to easy to double even in the small 9mm case. Generally when I read about a pistol KB, it is TG, regardless of caliber. SO I was surprised when he said CFE. I doubt they will come back to shoot for awhile, pretty embarrassing & costly mistake. Just glad the only thing that got hurt was someone's ego.
I had a moment so I did some quick measuring 10gr of CFE will fit in the case.
At 10gr you have so much powder in the case that I couldn’t seat a 124gr bullet at anything that would fit in a 9 mm magazine.
Eight grains will fit in the case and I could seat a 124gr bullet to normal seating depths.
So it looks like the shooter/reloader was right that he likely had a double (and maybe a few other analog factors like a scale that was slightly off maybe a little setback, who knows?) But likely a double kaboom.
I fully expected a double charge, just not sure how inattentive one would have to be. 8gr of CFE fits & allows the bullet to be seated still means someone got distracted. BTW, there was a squib in one of the attempts to shoot with the same ammo. So I know for a fact it was op error. If max is 5.5gr, same OAL, that would be 45% increase over max. I wonder what that translates to in pressure? Anyone with a Quickloads want to plug that in? Assume an OAL of say 1.140"??
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