Glock Talk banner

'n' DLC & PVD

10K views 52 replies 12 participants last post by  billsg27 
#1 ·
Pardon me if this has been asked before. I'm familiar with what both PVD and DLC coatings/finishes are BUT what the heck is the 'n' when applied by Glock?
 
#3 ·
n = near near Diamond Like Coating.


TXPO
Sorry. I may not know what the "n" stands for, but I do know that DLC means "Diamond Like Carbon," not "Diamond Like Coating."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond-like_carbon

"Diamond-like carbon (DLC) is a class of amorphous carbon material that displays some of the typical properties of diamond. DLC is usually applied as coatings to other materials that could benefit from some of those properties.[1]"

"For example, a coating of only 2 μm thickness of ta-C increases the resistance of common (i.e., type 304) stainless steel against abrasive wear; changing its lifetime in such service from one week to 85 years."

"This means that one-μm thickness (that is ~5% of the thickness of a human hair-end) would increase service lifetime for the article it coated from a week to over a year and two-μm thickness would increase it from a week to 85 years. These are measured values; though in the case of the 2 μm coating the lifetime was extrapolated from the last time the sample was evaluated until the testing apparatus itself wore out."
 
#7 · (Edited)
Is it just Glocks version of DLC. Or trademark. Kind of like melonite vs tennifer. All I know is it’s a super tough surface. Even when the black wears away it’s impregnated into the surface of the metal. Well I’m no scientist but that’s what I have read. For some reason my post on the triggers I had coated disappeared on GT. I put 400 rounds through the 19 Gen5 and no discernible wear. I’ll put another 400 in today. Probably see how it looks after around 1200 rounds. Mix of +P Hornady and WWB 115 grain. Seems to be holding up well. Sorry don’t have a trigger gauge to measure weight. Doesn’t seem lighter than a factory trigger but smoother. Maybe it’s all in my head? It has seemed to have broken in a bit. If you look on the barrels of a well used Gen5 barrel it shows wear but I think the coating/surface treatment is still there.
Update!
1300 Rounds. So to the naysayers this is a viable coating for the connector and trigger bar. It will extend service life in extreme conditions or lack of lubrication. It’s superior to Glocks standard trigger/connector coating.


After 800 rounds! 400 more to go and not one sign of de lamination or chipping.











 
#8 ·
Is it just Glocks version of DLC. Or trademark. Kind of like melonite vs tennifer. All I know is it’s a super tough surface. Even when the black wears away it’s impregnated into the surface of the metal. Well I’m no scientist but that’s what I have read. For some reason my post on the triggers I had coated disappeared on GT. I put 400 rounds through the 19Gen5 and no discernible wear. I’ll put another 400 in today. Probably see how it looks after around 1200 rounds. Mix of +P Hornady and WWB 115 grain. Seems to be holding up well. Sorry don’t have a trigger gauge to measure weight. Doesn’t seem lighter than a factory is trigger but smoother. Maybe it’s all in my head? It has seemed seemed to have broken in a bit. If you look on the barrels of a well used Gen5 barrel it shows wear but I think the coating/surface treatment is still there.

After 800 rounds! 400 more to go and not one sign of de lamination or chipping.
Good to know, thanks.
 
#10 ·
It could just be a marketing term, either from Glock or from the company applying the coating.

If it refers to a physical characteristic of the coating, I'd guess that it refers to one of three things: orbital arrangement, nitrogen doping, or deposition method.

Regarding orbital arrangement, I've seen "g-DLC" used as a reference for hydrogen-free DLC with specific sp bonding.

I've seen tungsten doped DLC written as DLC:W, W-DLC, W DLC, and even wDLC, so perhaps nDLC is nitrgen doped DLC. If this is the case, I’d imagine it’s a combination of chromium, carbon, and nitrogen, and they’re highlighting the nitrogen part (CrCN).

Lastly, perhaps the small n refers to the deposition method. DLC is often applied by physicals vapor (PVD), but maybe they're using some other method and they're highlighting the size (nano). Though, if the “n” does stand for nano, it would really just be a marketing term, as all DLC coatings are deposited at the atomic level whose resulting thickness are measuring in microns.
 
#12 ·
It could just be a marketing term, either from Glock or from the company applying the coating.

If it refers to a physical characteristic of the coating, I'd guess that it refers to one of three things: orbital arrangement, nitrogen doping, or deposition method.

Regarding orbital arrangement, I've seen "g-DLC" used as a reference for hydrogen-free DLC with specific sp bonding.

I've seen tungsten doped DLC written as DLC:W, W-DLC, W DLC, and even wDLC, so perhaps nDLC is nitrgen doped DLC. If this is the case, I’d imagine it’s a combination of chromium, carbon, and nitrogen, and they’re highlighting the nitrogen part (CrCN).

Lastly, perhaps the small n refers to the deposition method. DLC is often applied by physicals vapor (PVD), but maybe they're using some other method and they're highlighting the size (nano). Though, if the “n” does stand for nano, it would really just be a marketing term, as all DLC coatings are deposited at the atomic level whose resulting thickness are measuring in microns.
They're supposedly doing it in-house. ^ Thanks, have known of some of the application methods, just never heard of 'n'. You make sense.
 
#17 ·
Marketing, since the metal underneath was already Nitrided -- just to appease all the future complainers about the "frying pan" finish, and how one Glock "finish" seemed better than the other.

Wait for the first complainer about how their finish got scratched, or barrel shows rub marks.
 
#19 ·
It had nothing to do with marketing and everything to do with the FBI contract bid. When the Govt asks for something in a submission you give them what they want. The Gen5 is basically the M. What your saying cciman is pure speculation. It’s not based on and proof or facts.
 
#21 ·
It is my understanding that usually a steel component is either treated with DLC or Nitride, not both. I am not saying Glock isn’t utilizing both processes, but it seems impractical giving the cost and time to apply both treatments to each component.

Would be nice to know for certain.
 
#25 ·
Regarding DLC over another treatment, it may actually be preferred for some applications. Some locomotive piston pins are induction hardened, then ground to a fine polished finish, then DLC coated. DLC over unhardened alloy would not hold up. It would be similar to the candy coating on an M&M. Other applications have other requirements. It since the DLC is microns thick, and since it chips off the locking area of ejection port, I hope for the Gen 5 owners that the base metal is nitrided.
 
#27 ·
Barrels and slides are hardened before any coating or treatments, and that goes for any firearm.

Regarding the chipping of the gen 5’s; it’s confusing to say the least. Because a quality DLC treated component should not chip, scratch, or wear easily at all.

As you noted, they apply DLC to internal engine components for goodness sake (bearings, crankshaft bearing surfaces, pistons, etc...) which are extremely high friction and wear areas. Proper DLC coatings on these said parts don’t wear as easily as untreated parts.

And then you have Gen5 Glocks showing visible wear after only 300 rounds. That’s the confusing part to me. What type of DLC is Glock using?? Because it isn’t acting like quality DLC.
 
#33 ·
It had nothing to do with marketing and everything to do with the FBI contract bid. When the Govt asks for something in a submission you give them what they want. The Gen5 is basically the M. What your saying cciman is pure speculation. It’s not based on and proof or facts.
You are are speculating as well as I am assuming.

You are "speculating" that the facts are opposite what I posted-- that the metal is no longer nitrided prior to DLC, or DLC in place of nitride? Is this what the gov specs asked for...where does it say "DLC instead of nitride"?

DO YOU have proof! Perhaps you know better?
 
#35 · (Edited)
Not being a tool about it. It’s how it works. The Govt set the requirements of the new duty pistol. The Gen5 is basically the same pistol. It would cost Glock a lot more money to make a very different pistol. They are not permitted to sell the M to non Govt agencies or LE. It has DLC coating on the Gen5 and M series IAW the winning pistol specifications, the M series. The reason for the DLC is not for anything but to simplify production, save money. This is because it’s what the M contract calls for and it’s less expensive for Glock(produce the civ/Govt pistol on the same molds/machines). Plus everyone wanted the M series pistols. This is how Glock did it without violating the contract requirements.
Just read the RFP. https://www.slideshare.net/mobile/RichardJohnson203/fbi-rfp-for-new-glock-duty-pistols
 
#34 ·
Marketing, means something that is already being done as a manufacturing process but putting a fancy name to it so it is more visible. (As if the the valves in your engine were not already specially treated so they last mor than the life of the car body, but they actually advertise it as "sodium filled" or Titanium, to give it that extra special-ness.) That way they can justify the NEW and BETTER, and or the extra $50 they want to charge. As in: All AR lowers are "mil spec ANODIZED".
 
#37 ·
Topical goes on top of metal like ceracoat or paint. Nitride is a chemical reaction which hardens the metal at the molecular level correct? The black crap on the Glock Gen4 is not nitride. The nitride is colorless in some applications correct? So scratch the black off and the protective nitride is still there. Old Glock finishes had a surface coat like Teflon. Now the later Gen3/4 pistols had a very crappy topical finish over the nitride. You could scratch it off with your fingernail.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top