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What would it take to get you to reload?

10K views 191 replies 74 participants last post by  fg17 
#1 ·
This question comes about because of the new Kali****istan ammo law that started this month, but really kicks into high gear next jan. We now can no longer buy mail order/internet. All non FFL vendors can no longer sell ammo, bye bye Walmart out here. Next Jan requires a background check & fee & renewable lic to purchase. No buying across state lines & bringing it here. IMO, once all this is in place, then a per round tax will come into play. Once that is in place, like the cigarette tax, it will go up annually.
So I am telling all my shooting folks to start reloading. Even if you only shoot 1000rds a year, don't play the states game, make your own. At least for now, primers & powder do not come under this ban but I expect the liberal morons will figure it out & throw that into the mix as well. Good thing, I can stock a lot more powder & primers than I can ammo & for a lot less money.
 
#143 ·
Actually, I'm starting to hope the US Attorney General starts enforcing some of the illegal California laws, like legal marijuana. They're counting on revenue that will come from breaking the Federal law. Shutting off funds to states like California could help the US economy and give California a good slap in the face. I have a liberal neighbor and even though he is a nice guy, talking to him is just like talking to someone who just had a frontal lobotomy. He actually believes his Labrador would stop an armed invasion of his house! Mind boggling!
 
#150 ·
I started reloading for 30-06 when I was 12. Now, I'm 66 and still reloading. We used to have to reload to get the best accuracy, but things have changed since those days. Reloading gives a person the ability to use a gun for more purposes and lets a person shoot more for the same amount of money one would spend on factory ammo. In the case of shortages, it is easier financially to stockpile primers and powder in quantity than it is loaded ammo. I remember a few years ago when there was a primer shortage and some guys were selling primers for $65 - $75 per thousand. After Glock matches a person can usually pick up hundreds of 9mm brass free. If we have another ammo shortage, reloading may be the only answer for some. A friend from Vietnam told me anyone could get an M16 in his country for about $5.00, but you couldn't get ammo for it. I hope we never see that in this country. At least for now, we pretty much have a conservative Supreme Court, but who knows what's around the corner?
 
#154 · (Edited)
The collet fcd (4 fingers) for rifles has no post sizing ring. The pistol fcd has a post sizing ring that resizes down the bullet inside the brass too far with lead or hardcast, causing flame cutting, leading, and bad accuracy. I changed to Dillon crimp dies on all my toolheads. All Dillon dies period on the Dillons. I have no more problem with post undersized bullets now. I like Redding profile crimp die also. I will sometimes use the collet (4 fingers) rifle die when loading rifle bullets with a crimp cannelure.
 
#155 ·
Willie: Not sure just what your talking about here or what I've got then because my boxes say simply "LEE Factory Crimp Die".
They DO have a knob on top to adjust the amount of crimp. Inside are 4 fingers that surround the case and when you raise the ram, they close in on the case crimping it in a ring around the mouth of the case probably slightly over 1/32" wide. You can adjust them for any bullet with or without crimp grooves Plus jacketed bullets with no crimp cannelure. All I can say Willie is that I've been using them for years in .223, .308, .45-70, .9mm .44 Spl./Mag.. .45 ACP with excellent results. NO problem crimping my .45 acp's with it even though that round head spaces on the mouth of the case and it SOLVED a problem of bullet set back I was having with some brass in that round.
Maybe things have changed since I got mine since they are years old since LEE started them.
I'll have to take a better look at them when I go go to the shop.

I set a BAD record last Winter not loading a single round all Winter but didn't find out till Spring why I felt so bad & didn't do anything but lay around. From early Spring I've been battling intestinal cancer & think I'm Winning because I feel LOTS better now :)
BTW: NOT their orthodox med. way though & told doc I Would NOT Do That Period. I'll fight it my way doc.
The Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die:

https://leeprecision.com/reloading-dies/hand-gun-dies/lee-carbide-factory-crimp-die/

The Lee Factory Crimp Die:

https://leeprecision.com/factory-crimp-die-223.html

The Lee Carbide Factory Crimp die has a sizing ring at the mouth of the die. That ring retains the floating crimp collar that actually does the crimping. It also supposedly "irons out" bulges in cases, etc. The problem with the latter notion is if you are loading lead in straight walled calibers, you almost always will be sizing the bullet as part of your crimp step as that sizing ring squeezes in the case mouth where the fatter lead bullet sits as it goes by.

People claim all sorts of miraculous things for the Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die, you did it yourself by stating you can't crush a case with it. Unfortunately that trait actually only applies to the collet style Factory Crimp Die (die #1 above) as the collet puts the crimp on from the side. Unfortunately Lee never removed that "feature" in some of their marketing materials and claims it for Die #2 above, which is complete hogwash as the crimp collar on the Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die crimps just like any other crimp die sold by any manufacturer.

I could go on and on, but if you want to be taken seriously as a seasoned reloader, you need to understand how the two different dies work, and make sure you don't claim things for the Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die, that only applies to Lee Factory Crimp Die (die number 1 above).

Sorry if I seem abrupt, but it gets really tiring reading about miraculous things the Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die can do that, in fact, it doesn't. It is most annoying that Lee does nothing to dispel these myths.
 
#159 · (Edited)
IF I had more gwalch, I'd take you up on that swap offer but I have "Only" one set of Redding's left & that's a .308 set my Son would like to have. What can I say.

I still "remember" the days when young (ya I was ONCE) that I was lucky to have two 100 ct. boxes of primers but that's why I loaded THEN besides precision for my .22-250, Saving $$$. Ha, BTW. I've "still got" that old Rem. 700 ADL purchased in 67! :)

BTW: What do "You" think about the LEE FCD? I've heard so much negative crap talk about them on the INTERNET of course and it makes me wonder "IF" these people really even own one of these dies OR possibly even load/reload??? I Love the LEE FCD myself after learning how much crimp to use.
Well I heard so much about the lfcd for pistol I bought one in 45 acp. What I found is it reduces accuracy with most bullet types. How much depends on Your shooting skills, but reduce it does. So for me, just a gimick lee gets people to buy. I managed more than 250k perfect rds of various handgun ammo over the years w/o one.
 
#165 ·
I set a BAD record last Winter not loading a single round all Winter but didn't find out till Spring why I felt so bad & didn't do anything but lay around. From early Spring I've been battling intestinal cancer & think I'm Winning because I feel LOTS better now :)
BTW: NOT their orthodox med. way though & told doc I Would NOT Do That Period. I'll fight it my way doc.
Good luck....keep fighting
 
#171 · (Edited)
LoL! :duel:

Well you're wrong. Both Alaska and Texas are larger! Oh, you meant the amount of people on welfare or perhaps monies spent? Well duh! There's close to 40 million people, almost twice as many as the next three most populus states, Texas, Florida or New York and more populous than, Connecticut, Iowa, Utah, Arkansas, Nevada, Mississippi, Kansas, New Mexico, Nebraska, West Virginia, Idaho, Hawaii, New Hampshire, Maine, Rhode Island, Montana, Delaware, South Dakota, North Dakota, Alaska, District of Columbia and Vermont combined.

So proclaiming California as the "largest welfare state" is superfluous. Its like saying I use more toliet paper to clean my butt but doesn’t really mean anything if you like touching yourself there or you're full of s**t. :p

p.s. I agree with almost everything else you say, but please quit encouraging people to reload, as I said before, brass is hard enough to find. ;)
Of course based on money spent, that is the usual measurement of such things, so no I am not wrong & it is not superfluous, totally relevant. The so called welfare state also extends, imo, to state employees. Over paid & over compensated & that is on the local tax payer, not the Feds. Well at least until the state defaults. I hope they start pounding Kalif for their stupid sanctuary policies. Lets see them build a f-ing bullet train w/o Fed $$$.
As far as reloading, there will always be about 50% of the shooters that are afraid or not knowledgeable enough on the process concerning time & buy factory. Fine by me, I don't need a license to pick up their brass, at least not yet.
 
#172 ·
This question comes about because of the new Kali****istan ammo law that started this month, but really kicks into high gear next jan. We now can no longer buy mail order/internet. All non FFL vendors can no longer sell ammo, bye bye Walmart out here. Next Jan requires a background check & fee & renewable lic to purchase. No buying across state lines & bringing it here. IMO, once all this is in place, then a per round tax will come into play. Once that is in place, like the cigarette tax, it will go up annually.
So I am telling all my shooting folks to start reloading. Even if you only shoot 1000rds a year, don't play the states game, make your own. At least for now, primers & powder do not come under this ban but I expect the liberal morons will figure it out & throw that into the mix as well. Good thing, I can stock a lot more powder & primers than I can ammo & for a lot less money.
Weatherby moving to WYOMING after 73 years in California.
Just one more example of California's RESTRICTIVE GUNS LAWS & OUT OF CONTROL TAXATION causing corporations and citizens to find new homes OUT OF COMMIEFORNIA
Will California legislators ever wake up?


http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2018/01/23/breaking-shot-2018-weatherby-leave-california-move-wyoming/?utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=Email&utm_content=2018-01-24&utm_campaign=Weekly+Newsletter
 
#173 ·
Uh no. We are now a sanctuary state; the state is a legalized drug dealer, making $1B a year in selling drugs. Allowing criminal illegals to remain in the state & continuing to pay out 100s of millions in welfare. Again hope the Feds step on the states neck & start pulling funds. Love to see 1/2 the state workforce laid off. Just counting the months to my leaving.
 
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#175 ·
I am glad you are feeling better. Cancer is an absolute *****, I hope you get the best of care and lick it soon.

On the Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die, I think they did change the name along the way (not 100% certain of this though), primarily to maybe reduce confusion a little. In the end, it still really ticks me off as it feels to me that they purposefully mislead people, case in point, carrying over the "can't crush a case" verbiage in the Cbide Factory Crimp Die literature when it only applies to the collet die design (which doesn't push down on the case when crimping). The handgun "carbide" Factory Crimp Die (the one with the knob on top) crimps like any other taper crimp die (down from the top).

On the sizing ring "ironing out" bad cases, again, while I agree it can do that on a case that was partially sized (either by the die not being adjusted properly or if the sizing die has its sizing ring further up in the die body (only partially sizing the case)). Ironically, if the user is using a Lee Sizing Die, the sizing ring on the crimp die isn't going to touch anything on the case other than the case mouth and bullet as it goes by (harming things if it does) as the Lee sizing die has already sized the case all the way down as that sizing ring is also at its case mouth. So, once again, I find the Lee marketing materials highly misleading in this area.

I have a theory when they designed the Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die, they wanted the ease of adjust-ability with the knob and floating crimp collar and needed something to hold the collar up in the die. They got the great idea of using a carbide ring sized to SAAMI spec for the caliber (larger than the sizing ring of the sizing die in the set) and created all the "added marketing benefits" before anyone actually thought through it and realized, all the "added benefits" never would apply to anyone using it with a Lee sizing die that was properly adjusted and carried a lot of potential negatives for anyone using it to load lead in a straight walled caliber.

Just one of my pet peeves. I guess when we get old enough, we get a lot of pet peeves. :(
THANK YOU Very Much for your time to reply Williy. Just plain don't know what to say EXCEPT that "its worked fine for me". That's the whole ball of wax in one like bud. I really DO like the way the Factory Crimp die is able to crimp ANY bullet I load into some of my stiff .44 mag. loads like the 310 gr. hard cast gas checked Bear Loads even though there is absolutely NO bear problem in this area, hehe. Think ya know what I mean. You just gotta Do It & then TEST them out in proper media to see how much penetration you can get out of a Ruger Alaskan.
Strangely I guess, I've got the Alaskan by my bed in a mattress holster filled with those Bear Loads instead of what I probably should have with XTP's. The damage on penetration testing though just "Made Me Do It".
Absolutely amazing what damage a bullet like that can do even without expanding. Thinking of casting some much softer ones and testing again.
 
#176 ·
Necessity is what got me into reloading over 46 years ago. I wanted to shot Dad's 99 Savage in 250-3000 and no loaded ammo. Dad had brass, bullets,primers and powder.
He had a whack a mole resizer and a Lyman Tru Line Jr press along with a Pacific Tool And Die powder scale and a Lyman 55 powder measure. The reloading manual was a Lyman or perhaps an Ideal.
 
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#177 ·
Looks to me as if all states get about 75% back and a lot of states get more, just trying to prepare you guys for rebuttal.

p.s. what state do you live in? according to what little research I’ve done, red states (GOP) compared to blue, take more in government funding than they pay back in taxes.

p.p.s. One last poke, it’s worse than you think new stats show it’s closer to 99% return but I can’t find those links to confirm. With the high speed rail and still more ill legal immigrants coming in it won’t be long and California will be in the negative.

Of course Commiefornia get less per person.
Half are illegal and the other half work for the government
 
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#178 ·
THANK YOU Very Much for your time to reply Williy. Just plain don't know what to say EXCEPT that "its worked fine for me". That's the whole ball of wax in one like bud. I really DO like the way the Factory Crimp die is able to crimp ANY bullet I load into some of my stiff .44 mag. loads like the 310 gr. hard cast gas checked Bear Loads even though there is absolutely NO bear problem in this area, hehe. Think ya know what I mean. You just gotta Do It & then TEST them out in proper media to see how much penetration you can get out of a Ruger Alaskan.
Strangely I guess, I've got the Alaskan by my bed in a mattress holster filled with those Bear Loads instead of what I probably should have with XTP's. The damage on penetration testing though just "Made Me Do It".
Absolutely amazing what damage a bullet like that can do even without expanding. Thinking of casting some much softer ones and testing again.
You seem in good spirits, good for you, keep it going. Attitude is half the battle. Never, ever, ever, ever, ever give up. :)

It is ironic you have so much experience with the Lee die and .44RM, because when I first noticed my LCFCD sizing ring slamming into my flared case mouth was when loading some .431" EK style LSWC's in .44RM (although they were closer to .44 Special velocity wise). Like the numb skull I am, I kept working the lever, slamming each case mouth as the carbide ring went by. My 240gr LSWC load were nowhere near as accurate as they should have been, given how well setup my old Mdl 29. It took me a lot of rounds before I realized what the LCFCD was doing to my rounds.

I think to me, the way I see it is the LCFCD can make quality ammo, but it can only make ammo as good as any standard taper crimp die. The problem is it can also make really bad ammo. It really is all about that darn sizing ring at the case mouth. If it is hitting as it goes by the case mouth, sub-optimal ammo is the result.

Take care of yourself.
 
#179 ·
THANK YOU for the kind words Willie. Hey, I'll give up when I'm no longer kickin!
It sounds to me like you flare your case mouths much more than I do. I "Only" flare them enough to keep from shaving lead from the bullet when seating it. I used to flare them a lot more & for a while even tried flaring them so much it was quite visible to the eye but all it did was work harden the case mouths much quicker and cause cracking & the need to then anneal the rest of a batch of brass.
All I can say is that for my All Round handgun & NOT just a defense handgun to carry, the ole Rem. .44 Maggie is my favorite and don't know which I've loaded the most of, .44 Mags. or .45 acps.??? The .44 is just so dang versatile & I load it from Steamin Hot to very mild stuff really fun to shoot but still a lot more powerful than many of the guns used in the old west to kill many, many dudes. Wild Bill Hickock's favorite was the little .36 cal. Ever look up the energy of a little .36 cal. lead ball moving around 800 fps or so? Not very impressive when compared to today's standards but he sure used it effectively!

Just starting a new endeavor now with the new composite polymer & copper dust ARX bullets from Polyfermorace. (sp?). Picked up a bottle of Tightgroup today while in town as its one of the two listed best in the data I got & the little LGS didn't have any Autocomp. I didn't have either on hand here so its been holding me back from starting to load. Only bought a bag of 250 of the 9 mm's to start off with and see just how well the loading goes & what velocities I get over my crony. I've got the factory loaded stuff and have tested it some and its quite amazing stuff using a entirely new concept in bullets that changes all I've came to know in 53 years of loading. A Devastating performance bullet that Does Not Expand! WOW. SIG has sort of followed suit but with a all metal type sort of like them they call the Honey Badger but I've only had experience with the ARX. Something else to do on one of the coming snowy days. :) for the loading :-( for the SNOW.
My real love is with the ole .44 Mag. though, not a punny 9 mm. From 185 gr. to 310 gr. & all in between are all types of fun loads. I got a real hankerin to pull the Ruger Alaskan from its "home made mattress holster" home beside my bed and heat it up soon!!! Its a really accurate gun for such a short bbl. at least IMO.

Once again, Thank You for the kind words and my BATTLE may not be over but I am pretty sure than I'm winning it! Won't know till the next scan and I am expecting to get good results. If not, I'll just keep on fighting.

Haha, may be stupid but kinda reminds me of the old song about the Bismark, the battle ship that couldn't be sunk. However a bunch of smaller ships pounding it with shells for hours & hours finally showed them that it COULD be Sunk! We're Gonna Sink The Bismark! My battle is similar in a way = continuous pounding of my enemy! Just about time to fire up the plasma generator now which means I'll have to shut down this laptop here right beside it. Don't wanna fry my only laptop even though I don't like laptops. Sure has been a friend when stuck here in this recliner for several MONTHS! When I didn't feel like loading a Single round last Winter which was a first since 1964, I knew "Something" was wrong but never thought of cancer. Doc did though :-(
 
#180 ·
:agree: I have often said if I could only have one handgun, 4" N-frame or Ruger Redhawk. Mild to wild & you can even ccw with the right rig.
 
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#190 ·
First time reloader here, I bought the equipment and materials a long time ago and never used it. Now that I am working with the materials and equipment I am always downstairs at the bench.
I never expected to enjoy it like I do. On the weekends I find myself thinking how I could improve myself and learn better. SAFER. I can't believe it took me this long, now I am hooked.
 
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#191 · (Edited)
Brass is the one component that can be used numerous times. Over last six months if not last year ammo has been selling at bargain basement prices, especially 9mm ammo. Virgin brass bought separately can be quite expensive and most people that reload just buy factory ammo and save the brass, unless they have cheap local source of once fired brass. Mail order once fired brass is not generally cheap.

So if I had been in the situation of the original poster I think I might have been buying as much brass cased ammo as I could afford over the past year, especially if planned on 9mm being my go to caliber.

Once the ammo mail order ban came into force I would use available funds to buy powder and primers. I might at this point still hold off on buying reloading equipment until I had a LOT of components or they became very expensive/restricted. I don't see reloading equipment being subject to special taxes or controls so can buy them later or when find good buys.

In short buy what is cheap now and most likely to be restricted sooner and save that brass. To me a question of buying strategy. The politics is another matter and proper subject for a separate thread.

Probably too late for OP to stock up on ammo, but something for the rest of us to think about if faced with similar situation.
 
#192 ·
If I had to I would and I have done a little reloading in the past. I don’t shoot enough rifle or shotgun to matter. I do a little competitive shooting, all 9 mm.

But to be honest I work a trade job that is very repetitive after everything is set up, so reloading is to much like work to me. I’d rather work OT or a side job and buy my ammo.
 
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