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9mm, 40, 45?? Which is "Best?" Don't overthink it!

38K views 622 replies 183 participants last post by  Christopher67 
#1 ·
Just killing Thanksgiving morning fellas and looking over the posts in this forum:)

FWIW: Some of you are obsessing over caliber choice to the point where it is ridiculous.

I am a retired LEO from NY. I did 6 years in patrol and 18 in SWAT. During that time I have seen for myself or was present for the aftermath of probably hundreds of shootings with all types of weapons from handguns up to 223 and 308 rifles. I remember seeing a guy hit dead center mass with a 22lr die within a minute, yet another person hit in the same place with a JHP 357mag (was still standing when I got there) tell me what happened, who shot him, etc and survive. I also saw a guy hit with a 223 go down after getting hit in the left torso...lose a lung but survived too. I remember another time when a suspect was struck in the arm with a single 9mm round die from a heart attack but yet another guy was riddled with MP5 9mm rounds died only after being shot in the head with a 308 round.

I guess that my point is this: don't obsess over which caliber is best because I don't think that it matters much because bodies do strange things. There isn't a damm bit of difference between getting shot in the same place by a 9mm, 40, or 45 round with good/modern bullets...that's for damm sure.

With that in mind, I would carry a minimum of a 38/9mm in a gun that I shoot well.

FWIW: I ONLY carry a G19 with Speer 124gr Gold Dots because it was my duty weapon and I am 1,000% sure that the G19 is the best weapon for me. I like the fact that it holds 16 rounds which I would rather have than 8 with a 45ACP. I had a G23 for a while but I sold it because I didn't like the recoil and increased muzzle blast of the 40cal for an insignificant/irrelevant increase in "stopping power."

Just my 2cents:)
 
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#134 ·
Everyone has pretty strong opinions on this one and I doubt we'll change anyone's mind, might as well bring up gun cleaning methods.

There's so many variables people come up with it's impossible to have one gun/caliber that is going to be best for them all. I usually say shoot the caliber in the platform you carry that you can shoot the fastest and most accurately with from 9mm up. Most won't admit it but after decades of shooting I've only ever known a couple top level shooters that were really just as fast/accurate with a .40/.45 as they were a 9mm, but 99% of shooters think they are. I've seen guys that shot very well on a nice calm range that shot like crap in a shoot house under a little stress, and the guys that were shooting larger calibers had a larger negative impact unders stress to their shooting speed and accuracy.

One statistic I'd like to see is we always hear about how many rounds it took to incapacitate/kill someone, which is usually very low 2-3 rounds. However, it would be interesting to know what the total shots fired is. You both might be moving, shooting, in cover, etc. so while some make a case capacity isn't an issue that's only if all your rounds hit center mass. Which we know is anything but the case in real shootings, especially if someone is shooting back or moving.

I've carried and still carry them all, as they all have advantages and disadvantages in certain situations/environments. They are just tools, and there's never one tool that's best for everything.

At the end of the day it really comes down to this, larger calibers are on average going to do more damage, but you can fire rounds faster and more accurately with a smaller caliber and be less likely to have to reload. It just depends on which you prioritise more.
 
#145 ·
One statistic I'd like to see is we always hear about how many rounds it took to incapacitate/kill someone, which is usually very low 2-3 rounds. However, it would be interesting to know what the total shots fired is. You both might be moving, shooting, in cover, etc. so while some make a case capacity isn't an issue that's only if all your rounds hit center mass. Which we know is anything but the case in real shootings, especially if someone is shooting back or moving.
.
Pointless stat. Killing and stopping, totally diff thing. If we could all make headshots on demand, nothing bigger than a 22lr would be needed.
 
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#136 ·
Personally!
I live in what you would call a country ( safe zone) neighbors are ALL friends own enough guns to start a war.
I carry a 43 and own a 45 i don’t want to get shot at by me we either.
Don’t spend any time in the big city, as i was raised there and its not the nice place it once was.
I know the 43 is limited on fire power but its easy to carry and WILL get the job done if needed,i have two wishes. Never have to kill someone with it and win the lottery.
But as long as i’m on this today i will ask a question cause theres alot of knowledge about weapons out here.
This came up at coffee this mourning with the locals and i stand by my belief.
When the killing shot hit Pres.Kennedy it drove his head backwards and to the left?
I won’t go into my exoerience BUT?
THATS IMPOSSIBLE WITH A REAR WARD SHOT.
Be safe and GOD HAVE NO MERCY ON THE EVIL
 
#144 ·
OK-no overthin
Just killing Thanksgiving morning fellas and looking over the posts in this forum:)

FWIW: Some of you are obsessing over caliber choice to the point where it is ridiculous.

I am a retired LEO from NY. I did 6 years in patrol and 18 in SWAT. During that time I have seen for myself or was present for the aftermath of probably hundreds of shootings with all types of weapons from handguns up to 223 and 308 rifles. I remember seeing a guy hit dead center mass with a 22lr die within a minute, yet another person hit in the same place with a JHP 357mag (was still standing when I got there) tell me what happened, who shot him, etc and survive. I also saw a guy hit with a 223 go down after getting hit in the left torso...lose a lung but survived too. I remember another time when a suspect was struck in the arm with a single 9mm round die from a heart attack but yet another guy was riddled with MP5 9mm rounds died only after being shot in the head with a 308 round.

I guess that my point is this: don't obsess over which caliber is best because I don't think that it matters much because bodies do strange things. There isn't a damm bit of difference between getting shot in the same place by a 9mm, 40, or 45 round with good/modern bullets...that's for damm sure.

With that in mind, I would carry a minimum of a 38/9mm in a gun that I shoot well.

FWIW: I ONLY carry a G19 with Speer 124gr Gold Dots because it was my duty weapon and I am 1,000% sure that the G19 is the best weapon for me. I like the fact that it holds 16 rounds which I would rather have than 8 with a 45ACP. I had a G23 for a while but I sold it because I didn't like the recoil and increased muzzle blast of the 40cal for an insignificant/irrelevant increase in "stopping power."

Just my 2cents:)
ok,no overthinking this then-1st either .45 or .9mm-no use for .40
 
#151 ·
Well correct, within reason. If the bullet reaches 65cal, Doesnt matter where it starts. Good 9mm jhp can deliver that & better/faster hits are more likely vs heavier recoiling calibers. Yes one can reach a skill level to deliver good/fast hits with a compact 40 or 45, but it will take you much longer to reach that skill level.
Again I'm a 45 guy, but after shooting a 9 all year in competition, I can see the reason for its popularity. I have t sold my 1911 Comm, but do find my g26 being carried more & more.
 
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#149 ·
.40 has great penetration, expands to a large size, is affordable, and doesn't have too much recoil. What's not to like?
9mm has FBI acceptable penetration, expands to a large size, is more affordable, and has even less recoil. What's not to like?:duel:
 
#150 ·
What I consider with caliber is what the round will do when it passes through the the body or when there is an errant round. .40,10mm, and .45 have an accepted, documented and proven record of reliably stopping or drastically reducing the FPS after point of first impact so as to not cause significant or minor damage, collateral or otherwise beyond the intended target.

I don’t want a round like Danny Vermin in Johnny Dangerously who had a gun that could “shoot through” buildings. Hence I stay away from the 9mm for personal carry and the same reason our dept does not carry any 9’s. I own many 9’s and love them tho! Along with a 32 and a .380. But I will conclude.
Carry what you like and what you shoot well, the rest is all just words on a page.
 
#152 ·
No small piece of any picture tells the picture's story, and caliber is only part of a complicated storyline. Depending on the particulars, effective critical damage is the result of placement plus a round that is flat shooting, barrier blind, and high ft lb energy that readily transfers to target tissue. Underwood's Xtreme Defender rounds are remarkable in capturing these qualities...especially in caliber 357 Sig.
 
#245 · (Edited)
What does flat shooting come up all the time with 357sig? All service calibers are "flat" to 50yds even at 100, the diff between 357sig & 45acp is a couple inches. Most people cant hold 2" @ 100yds.
 
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#154 ·
I guess the military is @$$ backwards according to some thinking here. If bigger is better, why are they carrying 5.56 instead of .458 socom as standard issue. The .458 must be better than the 5.56. Stupid @$$ military.
No more sniper rifles in 7.62x51 or. 300 win mag or .338 Lapua, .50BMG only from here on out.

Anybody that has an edc smaller than a .500 mag is wasting their time.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
 
#155 ·
Just killing Thanksgiving morning fellas and looking over the posts in this forum:)

FWIW: Some of you are obsessing over caliber choice to the point where it is ridiculous.

I am a retired LEO from NY. I did 6 years in patrol and 18 in SWAT. During that time I have seen for myself or was present for the aftermath of probably hundreds of shootings with all types of weapons from handguns up to 223 and 308 rifles. I remember seeing a guy hit dead center mass with a 22lr die within a minute, yet another person hit in the same place with a JHP 357mag (was still standing when I got there) tell me what happened, who shot him, etc and survive. I also saw a guy hit with a 223 go down after getting hit in the left torso...lose a lung but survived too. I remember another time when a suspect was struck in the arm with a single 9mm round die from a heart attack but yet another guy was riddled with MP5 9mm rounds died only after being shot in the head with a 308 round.

I guess that my point is this: don't obsess over which caliber is best because I don't think that it matters much because bodies do strange things. There isn't a damm bit of difference between getting shot in the same place by a 9mm, 40, or 45 round with good/modern bullets...that's for damm sure.

With that in mind, I would carry a minimum of a 38/9mm in a gun that I shoot well.

FWIW: I ONLY carry a G19 with Speer 124gr Gold Dots because it was my duty weapon and I am 1,000% sure that the G19 is the best weapon for me. I like the fact that it holds 16 rounds which I would rather have than 8 with a 45ACP. I had a G23 for a while but I sold it because I didn't like the recoil and increased muzzle blast of the 40cal for an insignificant/irrelevant increase in "stopping power."

Just my 2cents:)
Why would you ask this? And how can any reply give you the answer you think youre looking for?
 
#156 ·
For me, I use the g23. I feel in a situation, you can't choose what happens. The 23 is in the middle of all situations. I use the winchester le ammo hollow point. It gives more of a boost with less kick and flash. So I suggest to research, find and use the equipment to suit best for you. That's how I found my setup. I have a touch of a 19 and a 45. I feel insured if a dopped up guy, or an attacker in a car or behind a mailbox, my equipment will get them.
 
#157 · (Edited)
BEST for me "would be" the .45 acp but due to my shrunken up arthritic old hands that won't now actuate the grip safety 100% of the time without working at it which is a BIG NO CAN DO, I've been forced to step down to the 9mm in a G19 & really like it. I carry Hornady Critical Duty and 2 spare mags.
Yes I know I can disable the grip safety but do not wish to other than range practice as I have somehow inadvertently snapped the thumb safety off before. The grip on my G21 has grown to large for my hand now also.
Leopard: You mentioned the one riddled with MP5 rounds. Yes I remember a time in ChiTown years ago when a dude took 33 or 35 solid center mass hits with LEO's 9 mm's and only went down after simply bleeding out and loosing consciousness. Autopsy showed that he was full of PCP, nasty stuff no matter how you look at THAT crap. They even banned it for animal sedation use because it was so unpredictable.
 
#197 ·
You certainly LOST me with your quote of "less wound damage" there Dragon. WHAT do you think you shoot someone for If Absolutely FORCED into the situation? FYI, its the most wound damage & destruction possible with what your shooting! Clear? If for some strange reason beyond my understanding here, Please Explain because you totally lost me with that phrase.
 
#161 ·
Just killing Thanksgiving morning fellas and looking over the posts in this forum:)

FWIW: Some of you are obsessing over caliber choice to the point where it is ridiculous.

I am a retired LEO from NY. I did 6 years in patrol and 18 in SWAT. During that time I have seen for myself or was present for the aftermath of probably hundreds of shootings with all types of weapons from handguns up to 223 and 308 rifles. I remember seeing a guy hit dead center mass with a 22lr die within a minute, yet another person hit in the same place with a JHP 357mag (was still standing when I got there) tell me what happened, who shot him, etc and survive. I also saw a guy hit with a 223 go down after getting hit in the left torso...lose a lung but survived too. I remember another time when a suspect was struck in the arm with a single 9mm round die from a heart attack but yet another guy was riddled with MP5 9mm rounds died only after being shot in the head with a 308 round.

I guess that my point is this: don't obsess over which caliber is best because I don't think that it matters much because bodies do strange things. There isn't a damm bit of difference between getting shot in the same place by a 9mm, 40, or 45 round with good/modern bullets...that's for damm sure.

With that in mind, I would carry a minimum of a 38/9mm in a gun that I shoot well.

FWIW: I ONLY carry a G19 with Speer 124gr Gold Dots because it was my duty weapon and I am 1,000% sure that the G19 is the best weapon for me. I like the fact that it holds 16 rounds which I would rather have than 8 with a 45ACP. I had a G23 for a while but I sold it because I didn't like the recoil and increased muzzle blast of the 40cal for an insignificant/irrelevant increase in "stopping power."

Just my 2cents:)
Excellent writeup, Leopardtrack. Lately, I have been carrying my Glock 41 because I shoot it well and like the idea of having 14 rounds of .45 ACP on board. I carry one extra mag on my person.

If I need to be extra concerned about printing or someone making me as CCW, then I will carry my Glock 19, which I also shoot well, and 2 extra mags.

The other 3 guns that sometimes work into the rotation, either for a dog walk or a quick trip to the grocery store are PM9, MK9, 642. Keep a Beretta M9 with 19 rds on board in the truck in case of needing a NY reload from the truck.
 
#167 ·
Like many of you my caliber of choice is .40 s&w mainly because I carried it in a G23c and a G27 the times I worked as a police officer. I know when you are running a course with steel targets it took more shots with a 9mm than a .40.
 
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