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Had a stressful drive thru

8K views 116 replies 70 participants last post by  Bruce M 
#1 · (Edited)
did Not get any helpful responses. Just insulted. When someone reaches into your car and demends your money, worry not.
 
#2 ·
Sad to say but if the police had been called, there is a good chance you could have been charges with brandishing a firearm.
If all he did was walk up and demand money, where was the imminent threat? Like you said, you could have rolled up your window or, if the car in front of you was gone, you could have driven away.

Not taking his side but just putting out the possibilities in this day and age. I am sure you will get better opinions from the LEOs on here.

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#3 ·
Currently in MS, there is no law against brandishing a firearm, we covered that in a grand jury session earlier in the year. I thought there was a law covering this but no.
Don't blame you for pulling leather, I hate it but the panhandlers are getting bolder.
 
#5 ·
Currently in MS, there is no law against brandishing a firearm, we covered that in a grand jury session earlier in the year. I thought there was a law covering this but no.
Don't blame you for pulling leather, I hate it but the panhandlers are getting bolder.
No law against people seeing your gun. I guarantee there's a law against pointing it at them. In Wisconsin, I'm sure it's stricter.

It can vary state to state, but if you don't have a good argument about why you thought deadly force was about to be needed, you are on pretty shaky ground. The OP was on very shaky ground (but it's possible it was legal).
 
#7 ·
I hate drive throughs that have some sort of barrier that blocks you in. My preference is a wide open lane, no barrier, and leave enough space to pull out of line and go if someone approaches my vehicle.

OP, the only time I've pulled my gun was when I was boxed in at a light in downtown Dallas. A panhandler started banging on my driver's side window. I pulled my gun out of the console. I didn't point it at him. He ran. I think you did fine. I'll defer to Bren on the law.
 
#15 ·
That would be my course of action as well. All while maintaining enough distance from the car in front of me to be able to see his rear wheels, that ensures enough space to maneuver if I have to.
Shooting someone is my very last resort. What's that rule of firearm safety again; "never point a gun at something you do not wish to destroy?" It's to be followed always.

That said; OP, glad you're safe.
 
#10 ·
not likely to have displayed a weapon.
door locked, window only cracked, loud aggressive voice GTF away from me a$$h---.
even as an old geezer, the display of countless tattoos and no fear helps a lot.
was told in the sixties, by an ex con, show no fear, there is no fear.
i don't temp fate, i do take reasonable precautions. like i said door locked, window would not be more than cracked.
 
#13 ·
One of the things ingrained in me by LEO family members is that when stopped in traffic, always leave room between your bumper and the bumper of the car in front of you so you can turn the wheel in either direction, hit the gas, and escape from whatever might happen to unfold.

I seem to regularly come across panhandlers at intersections, exit ramps, and the occasional drive-up. FWIW, when I spy a panhandler my practice is to stop way far back of the car in front of me -- like by one or two full car lengths. If my window is down, I put it up. If they come walking toward me, I roll forward. That way, they know I'm not interested in whatever they have to say/sell/ask.

Separate but related, you might have seen these two videos about the same incident out of Texas some 18 months ago. A motorist in the drive-thru lane of a McDonald's was held-up at gunpoint. It ends badly for the BG.

Stay safe.

And a Happy Thanksgiving to all.
 
#16 ·
Good examples both.

1st one- still going to Grand Jury for possible charges even though multiple witnesses confirmed the robbery attempt.

2nd one- will get by maybe by being LE. Courts don't like perps that are shot in the back especially multiple times. I would bet if that guy was just a civilian, he would be charged after shooting him 4 or 5 times in the back after he was down on the ground.

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#14 ·
What was he doing that you considered "aggressive"? It's hard to me to say since I wasn't there, but going by what you've said, I probably would have either gave him a buck or simply rolled the window up. I travel a geat deal(I'm on the road now) and have never encountered a homeless person where I felt introducing deadly force was ever remotely close to being an appropriate or necessary option. Anytime I've told someone to back off, they have.The tropics and year around warm climates have their fair share of severely mentally ill homeless individuals, but most are consumed with whatever is going on inside their head.
 
#106 ·
_

Agree with you but, hard to tell unless we were there. If you spaced out for a moment on the menu and were startled by a transient that alone could have caused you to throw down. My radar usually lets me know and I'm in yellow most of the time. I always look at their shoes before considering giving them a handout. Too many of them are wearing shoes that give away their condition. I've even told one once, "Dude, if your wanting people to believe your destitute, dress the part". If you've got any insticts at all, you'll be able to tell the ones doing it for a living or the ones that really need a lifeline. The ones I usually give a handout to don't even ask me for anything, you can tell they need something to eat and I don't have to wonder....that make sense?
 
#17 ·
No offense intended to a felllow GTer, but IMHO pointing the gun at him probably went a little to far.

In my life I’ve pointed a gun at exactly two people and in both cases I fully intended to shoot them. The first guy wisely put his gun down and ran, so no need to shoot. The second guy dropped his crowbar and ran as soon as he saw the gun, so again no need to shoot him, though I did get two of his tires which abbreviated the subsequent police chase.

In the first instance the perp was an immediate threat to a woman he was trying to kidnap. In the second case the perp had broken into my home.

In the OP’s situation I would have had my gun in hand, but not displayed unless the panhandler threatened me or tried to gain entry to my car.
 
#20 ·
Because I wasn't there, I cannot say whether you did the right thing or not, but a few things come to my mind that should be considered regarding safety in cars.

1. As mentioned above by someone else, always leave room to escape possible danger without hitting another car and have a plan.

2. Roll the window(s) all the way up. Windows aren't easy to break by punching with a fist. If someone can get their fingers in the window, it can be broken much more easily. Don't provide the opportunity. You can yell loud enough to get your point across when the window is closed.

3. I very much dislike that many vehicles today unlock all the doors when the transmission is put in "PARK". I believe the driver should be able to choose when to unlock the doors from the inside instead of having the vehicle choose "for your convenience". Therefore, make sure you are safe to get out of vehicle before putting it in park, or lock them again immediately afterwards. This goes for parking lots, traffic lights, drive-throughs, traffic congestion, etc. ... even more so with the Christmas shopping and theft season upon us.

For all the people who have been to self-defense classes and played out the mental decision-making drills as to what you should or will do when you are threatened and have a firearm, do the same thing for all the situations you have often throughout your life, such as grocery shopping, parking, going to church, traffic congestion, flat tires, parking lots, putting fuel in your automobile, banking, darkness, etc., etc.
 
#88 ·
Off topic ...
<snip>
I very much dislike that many vehicles today unlock all the doors when the transmission is put in "PARK". I believe the driver should be able to choose when to unlock the doors from the inside instead of having the vehicle choose "for your convenience". Therefore, make sure you are safe to get out of vehicle before putting it in park, or lock them again immediately afterwards. This goes for parking lots, traffic lights, drive-throughs, traffic congestion, etc. ... even more so with the Christmas shopping and theft season upon us.
<snip>
I don't know about other vehicles, but my Toyota & Ford truck ('06) both have the capability of auto unlocking the doors as it is shifted into 'park' or similar. I too consider this a major security flaw in most newer cars.
I found in the programming menus of both vehicles that this can be set to 'manual unlock'.
Take a look at your owner's manual to see how to address this.

My 2¢

Ed
 
#22 ·
There's some people that always seem a little too eager to utilize their CCW. You were in a vehicle, you could have rolled up your window, he did not display any weapon. You would probably be in a world of trouble if you shot him.
 
#27 ·
after work tonight about 11 pm I decided to grab a snack from a McDonald’s on the way home. Saw some homeless guy getting aggressive getting money from the car in front of me. I had someone behind me so I had no option but to drive up to the order speaker. The guy looked unsteady and angry and demanded money from me. I responded with my glock 23 aimed at him from my right hand. I told him to quickly get away as I will not allow a threat to stay near me. He got away quickly, but it happened very fast. The outcome was good, but I told the person taking the order to call the police as the guy was aggressive and demanded money. The person at the store said they have called police many times but he is gone by then. I think I should have not left my window down which I did when I approached the drive thru. I was focused on getting the gun up and making a clean center mass shot if I had to. This was not a fun day. Could have gone worse I guess. Your really in a bad place in a car trying to defend yourself and can’t get the car out of there quickly .

Just thought I would present the issue and see what other folks would have done , better or different.
No law against people seeing your gun. I guarantee there's a law against pointing it at them. In Wisconsin, I'm sure it's stricter.

It can vary state to state, but if you don't have a good argument about why you thought deadly force was about to be needed, you are on pretty shaky ground. The OP was on very shaky ground (but it's possible it was legal).
Yeah, don't do this in Florida.
 
#28 ·
I guess it depends of what your definition of is, is.
Did you pull it in self defense or not would be the question.

Miss. Code Ann. § 97-37-19. Deadly weapons; exhibiting in rude, angry, or threatening manner.

If any person, having or carrying any dirk, dirk-knife, sword, sword-cane, or any deadly weapon, or other weapon the carrying of which concealed is prohibited, shall, in the presence of three or more persons, exhibit the same in a rude, angry, or threatening manner, not in necessary self-defense, or shall in any manner unlawfully use the same in any fight or quarrel, the person so offending, upon conviction thereof, shall be fined in a sum not exceeding five hundred dollars or be imprisoned in the county jail not exceeding three months, or both. In prosecutions under this section it shall not be necessary for the affidavit or indictment to aver, nor for the state to prove on the trial, that any gun, pistol, or other firearm was charged, loaded, or in condition to be discharged.
 
#47 ·
In Mississippi:
(1)(a) A person is guilty of simple assault if he (i) attempts to cause or purposely, knowingly or recklessly causes bodily injury to another; (ii) negligently causes bodily injury to another with a deadly weapon or other means likely to produce death or serious bodily harm; or (iii) attempts by physical menace to put another in fear of imminent serious bodily harm; and, upon conviction, he shall be punished by a fine of not more than Five Hundred Dollars ($500.00) or by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than six (6) months, or both.

Miss. Code. Ann. § 97-3-7
 
#29 ·
after work tonight about 11 pm I decided to grab a snack from a McDonald’s on the way home. Saw some homeless guy getting aggressive getting money from the car in front of me. I had someone behind me so I had no option but to drive up to the order speaker. The guy looked unsteady and angry and demanded money from me. I responded with my glock 23 aimed at him from my right hand. I told him to quickly get away as I will not allow a threat to stay near me. He got away quickly, but it happened very fast. The outcome was good, but I told the person taking the order to call the police as the guy was aggressive and demanded money. The person at the store said they have called police many times but he is gone by then. I think I should have not left my window down which I did when I approached the drive thru. I was focused on getting the gun up and making a clean center mass shot if I had to. This was not a fun day. Could have gone worse I guess. Your really in a bad place in a car trying to defend yourself and can’t get the car out of there quickly .

Just thought I would present the issue and see what other folks would have done , better or different.
It sucks when it happens.
 
#101 ·
While not agreeing or disagreeing with the OP, these kind of reactions above always leave me puzzled.

You can go from being in no danger to being in danger in a half second. It's UP to YOU to be ahead of the game. I've been in a few drive thru's over the years where you are completely trapped.

Situational awareness is key and I think the OP was working that. As ****ed up as people are anymore, I'm not gonna wait until I have to come up with a plan B per say.

Also, your vehicle is a lethal weapon if need be. I don't always carry (shameful I know) so for me I've probably had more day dreams about what ifs that were involving my vehicle.
 
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#32 ·
Not beating up on the OP, but I think the "imminent threat" thing would be hard to prove...without an edged weapon or any weapon apparent, not sure the alarm.

Not that you're askin', but it seems a bit of an over-reaction, the important part is everyone went home safely but I don't know if that'd be a typical scenario I'd support for CCW'rs...jmo.

Of course none of us were there and didn't know how you felt, if you felt in danger, you did the right thing, but it may come with a negative consequence per law if that's your typical course of action in that scene.
 
#38 ·
Jury of peers would see a poor, unarmed, helpless, homeless, hungry man and one of those crazy gun toting deplorables shot him for asking for help. Avoidance is always plan A.
Doors locking when shift to Park is an option that can be changed. Method varies but it's in the owner's nanual, Google, or Youtube.
 
#41 · (Edited)
Doors locking when shift to Park is an option that can be changed. Method varies but it's in the owner's nanual, Google, or Youtube.
Good point. So it's simple to change. I need to help some close friends and family make those changes.

There are many customizable features in ______ vehicles that some owners aren’t even aware of.

[Rhetorical]
How many non-GT-uber-tactical-defense-guru-operators actually consider making the change on the basis of this discussion?
[/Rhetorical]

The point is that the "default" as many received new have this issue. Change the settings or consider how you can make wise choices with the variety of "convenience features" provided to you or an assailant.
 
#40 ·
Ability - no weapons displayed, implied

Opportunity - you and he both were present.

Intent - no threat made or implied

I think your situation was lacking at least two variables, and where I'm from, pointing a firearm when it's not warranted is wanton endangerment.

This one did not go well.

I recommend rolling up your window, locking the doors and focusing on preventing him from reaching you.
 
#42 ·
well just another reason not to eat out....hey if some crazy panhandler who is aggressive approached me...i would first tell them to stop and leave ..if they keep coming then what else should u do...where i live we see very few panhandlers....so sorry u had to deal with someone like that....God Bless,John
 
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