I had two ATF agents stop by my home last night to ask me about some of my recent purchases. They wanted to verify that I had purchased the firearms and that I still owned them. This is the first time I have ever heard about this happening. Is it typical for agents to go to buyers homes? Is it their way of letting me know that I am purchasing too many firearms?
You probably bought more than one handgun at one time, or within one week period and the dealer filed a multiple handgun purchase form on you. Usually they don't bother checking you out unless you buy something like ten High Point pistols at a time. They are just looking for thugs buying guns for street sales.
Years ago, I had a high-roller transfer over 40 guns on one 4473. The ATF was all over him, but after checking him out, all was good to go. It's not illegal to buy 1,000+ guns in one day if you want.
I wouldn't talk to anybody about guns, that shows up at my door, unless they brought local law enforcement with them. I wouldn't trust that they are who they say they are, unless local LEO is with them.
You never know, it could be burglars with fake credentials, fishing to see what you have, or whatever.
I have read several threads on different firearms forums over the years with the exact same situation.
The all over amount of purchases (also more than one firearm in a week, being reported by your LGS, by law in FL) triggered a red flag. Not enough for a warrant but they did a home visit.
I keep an Excel list of all my firearms with the following details:
- Model
- Caliber
- Serial number
- Purchase price
- Place of purchase
- Date of purchase
- Place of sale (I don't sell any of my guns though)
- Date of sale
- Name of buyer
- Driver license no of buyer
- Price
current and printed out.
If I ever would get a visit, I'd show them the printed list and the firearms.
While I could deny it legally, I do actually appreciate that the ATF is actively trying to keep firearms out of criminal hands or check on people conducting a firearms business without license, and proper background checks.
I have read several threads on different firearms forums over the years with the exact same situation.
The all over amount of purchases (also more than one firearm in a week, being reported by your LGS, by law in FL) triggered a red flag. Not enough for a warrant but they did a home visit.
I keep an Excel list of all my firearms with the following details:
- Model
- Caliber
- Serial number
- Purchase price
- Place of purchase
- Date of purchase
- Place of sale (I don't sell any of my guns though)
- Date of sale
- Name of buyer
- Driver license no of buyer
- Price
current and printed out.
If I ever would get a visit, I'd show them the printed list and the firearms.
This is a good way to go to jail. That list will be used against you when you are charged with dealing without a license. Not sure why anyone would think it is a good idea to give them more than they request.
I hate that they put you in a position where you have to prove you’re not a criminal. I hate that the government puts you in a position of cooperating and giving up your rights, or citing your rights and risking blowback despite doing nothing wrong. Unless there is evidence of a crime committed, they need to leave you alone. The whole idea of “if you got nuttin’ to hide” is an excuse for authoritarianism.
I don't believe it is much different than someone who buys and sells to many used cars. At some point if you cross their radar, they will drop by to rattle your cage and say, look son you are buying and selling way too many of these firearms in too short of a time period and then selling them, and you need to stop it now or get your FFL license. Depending on what they say or ask of you, I would cooperate, but only if my attorney is present.
Multiple transactions in one day is not against any federal law. You do NOT have to possess the firearms that you purchase. You can legally buy them as a gift.
Should've said you would be more than happy to chat with them about whatever they like, if they'd just spare a few minutes of their time first to hear the Good News about our Lord and Savior.
Those that feel they have nothing to hide and would freely answer any and all questions should watch the movie “my cousin Vinnie”
They literally can and WILL use anything you say against you.
My X-wife (when in law school) had to watch a scene from that movie where one of the young guys said “ I killed the clerk?” Questioning the statement but when read in court without the questioning tone it sounded like a confession.
These guys are not your friends!!
My guess is of the Glocks you’ve bought over the past 2 months, you had the g27 and g19 transferred to you either on the same day or within 5 business days of each other. Dealers are required to report more than 1 transfer of any handguns to the same buyer if the transfers occur within the same 5 business days.
This requirement is designed to identify potential straw buyers of handguns, who may be buying multiple guns at a time and then illegally offloading them to ineligible owners/flipping them for a profit, etc. Either one of those activities is a big no-no and can earn guilty parties an extended stay in Club Fed.
While the visit may have been unsettling, the ATF agents were doing their job. No skin off your back as it sounds like you’re a perfectly legal gun owner who was lucky enough that have the cash to purchase a nice stash of guns in short period of time.
AND if it wasn't "suspicious" (by ATF's standards, not yours or mine), there would not be a separate form that FFL's filled out when multiple firearms were purchased.
Just remember one thing. If the investigating officers or agents advise you of your rights and then ask you if you will answer questions, DON'T ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS!! Ask them to leave, and then call your lawyer, or get one if you don't already have one.
According to the agents I talked to, their computer system generates those "letters of investigation". I was visited a couple years ago, and the agents said they knew before making the 50 mile drive from Dallas, there was nothing to worry over, but they have bosses too. The whole 2 minute conversation took place on my front porch, and they never once asked to come inside or see any guns.
Lol. his is the correct answer. Get cctv and talk to whom you deem worthy.
I have no issue with the feds, my bro in law just retired last week, but I do have a problem with how they spend their time. I had some bad business partners who probably created a stack of unusual banking reports stealing my equity and withdrawing it in cash,then western union it to China. and they did nothing. I was told if it’s less than a million they don’t prosecute. It was just shy.
You just need one bad experience in life to change you perception.
Who says they were looking at the OP? If the FFL had been chalking up an unusual pattern of sales, ATF would be interested to know if the people on the 4473 were actual customers.
Multiple handgun purchases. They were most likely checking for straw purchases. Probably triggered by multiple- Reports of Multiple Handgun Purchases, which the dealer has to submit, by law, to both the ATF and the local chief law enforcement officer.
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