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First batch of 9mm loads not promising.

4K views 43 replies 22 participants last post by  Taterhead 
#1 ·
Got out to the range today to try the new loads I worked up last night. Very, very disappointed.

I tried the most popular loads for target accuracy and they all performed worse than cheap Remington UMC from Walmart.

I don't know what is wrong with this pistol; I just cannot seem to get consistent accuracy out of it. Not sure if it's the trigger or what.

Bone stock I managed a 2 1/8" group at 25yds with a rest using Remington UMC 124gr FMJ...

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After another 300 rounds through it and polishing the trigger, I shoot today and the same loads do noticeably worse...

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Best group with reloads was 3 7/8" using 4.9gr of WSF and Hornady 115gr FMJ.

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I also shot all reloads in the stock barrel and the Storm Lake barrel. Storm lake groups were noticeably worse, as they were with off-the-shelf ammo. Of course, I contacted Storm Lake about the noticeably worse performance and they pretty much didn't give a crap.

Same WSF load that performed the best with stock barrel was also the most accurate with the Storm Lake barrel, if you can call 4" at 25yds "accurate"...

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Rest of the groups were from 4.5" to 6"+... Awful.

Loads tried all used the same Hornady 115gr FMJ .355 bullet.

Tried 4.0 and 4.3gr of Titegroup, 5.0gr of Unique, and the 4.9gr of WSF. Oddly enough, had two primers that failed. Used CCI 500s. I've had only one other primer fail to fire in the year I've been reloading and that was the CCI Large Pistol primer. No issue with the 550s and my .40 S&W loads. Neither of the failed primers would go after second and third strikes, either.

Thought maybe I was just having an off day; it happens. But then I got out my G29 and set the target at the 20yd mark and fired off this group...

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So I don't know what to do next. Will probably order some 124gr bullets to see if I have better results. Not sure if I will go up to .356 diameter or not. Or maybe just bag the whole reloading for 9mm thing and just use cheap ammo from Wal-mart and not worry about it. Or get a G34 and hope it's more accurate.
 
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#3 ·
... Loads tried all used the same Hornady 115gr FMJ .355 bullet.

Tried 4.0 and 4.3gr of Titegroup, 5.0gr of Unique, and the 4.9gr of WSF. Oddly enough, had two primers that failed. Used CCI 500s. I've had only one other primer fail to fire in the year I've been reloading and that was the CCI Large Pistol primer. No issue with the 550s and my .40 S&W loads. Neither of the failed primers would go after second and third strikes, either.

So I don't know what to do next. Will probably order some 124gr bullets to see if I have better results. Not sure if I will go up to .356 diameter or not. Or maybe just bag the whole reloading for 9mm thing and just use cheap ammo from Wal-mart and not worry about it. Or get a G34 and hope it's more accurate.
That is a decent bullet. I like Hornady products. But I use 6.0 grains of Unique. I think you are light. Make a batch of 50 rounds with 6.0 grains of Unique. I think you'll like it.
 
#4 ·
Every gun likes something different.... try another bullet weight. My s&w 9mm likes 124g over 115g. I know most people don't like it but I use a lot of blue dot powder and have good results. It's actually the first powder I ever used and still use it to this day.
 
#6 ·
Wrong powder at that vel level, likely why its all over the place. If you want to run 1000fps with 115gr, which is a out where you are, you need a faster powder. Than unique or wsf Also check your crimp. Over crimping ruins accuracy by decreasing the bullet dia. You want just enough crimp ro remove the bell/flare.
 
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#7 ·
But then I got out my G29 and set the target at the 20yd mark and fired off this group...
Part of this is the G29 was shot 5 yards closer. It may have made a big difference in your ability to see and precisely align the sights.

Your original 9mm factory group is good and as expected for 25 yards. After that, maybe your handloads aren't accurate for your gun. Switching back to factory ammo, you were probably discouaged.

I don't yet see anything wrong with your gun.
 
#8 ·
For me, out of my G19 and G26, I found 124grn mid power loads run a little longer than what the book recommended, were very accurate.

I never really found a 115grn load that was super accurate.
 
#9 ·
My plinking load for 9mm is 124 grain xtreme round nose with 4.8 grains of unique. OAL is 1.16". They work great and are as very accurate. Past 25 yards they open up, but that's likely the gun as well.

I just bought 1000 135 grain to try out since they were on sale.

I don't like the 115s. They just never feel right to me.
 
#17 ·
I don't know if 6 grains would even fit in the case without being a compressed load. Heck I don't even use 6 grains in my .45acp loads (5.8).

And these feel almost identical to any off the shelf 124 grain ammo. And my carry ammo feel only a small amount more snappy.
Yes a 6gr load under 115gr bullet is compressed, but not an issue, still well within pressure limits. Its just not the best choice for light bullets unless you want near +p vel.
 
#18 ·
Notice the bullet weights in the load instructions, very important little detail.
I'm not so dumb as to think bullet weight is not important in load data.

My comment was because one person said I was light at 5.0gr and suggested 6.0 grains. The other said I was way too high and to use 3.8gr.

If you are going to chastise anyone, it should be the folks who didn't see that I was using 115gr and suggested load data based on bullets I don't have.
 
#19 ·
No one is saying you are dumb, not chastising anyone either, just stating the obvious. I don't see data for 3.8gr of Unique suggested here for anything. A 4.8gr load was offered, but 124gr. Yes, you have to pay attention. If I missed it, please point me to it, but I am telling you, 4.8gr of Unique, or any medium burner, is to low for accurate 115gr loads. Take the advice as it is given or not, but :panties:. We are trying to help.
 
#20 ·
I think (I'd have to look back in my notes), that when I first started loading 9mm, I bought a box of 250 115 grain bullets. Berrys it would have been. I was putting 5.0 or 5.2 grains of unique behind them. I just never liked the way the 115 grains felt, reloads or factory ammo, so I loaded them and shared them with my father.

But if I recall, they were decent accuracy wise. Not as good as I've gotten my 124s, but still acceptable for the range for sure. Again, I generally shoot at 25 yards or less. Most of the time arou around 15 yards.

So as far as longer range performance, I can't comment since I rarely shoot any further with my 9mm guns. .45 acp out of my 1911 I go out to 50+ yards just to try it and see what I can pull off.
 
#22 ·
I didn't see any chrono data. You can't reload without data as all you would be doing is going by the highly subjective "felt recoil". Not a good indication of velocity.

It's really hard to aim at the center of a big black circle. I wonder what would happen if you let the entire ball sit on top of the front site? Sure, the group won't be in the center of the target but that's not the point.

One problem I have with rifle shooting to point of aim is that the point disappears and I have a shot up mess to aim at. It's probably better to set the sights to deliver the round a bit high. Six clicks ought to do it and that just happens to be the 'come-up' for 200 yards (my load, my rifle).
 
#23 ·
I didn't see any chrono data. You can't reload without data as all you would be doing is going by the highly subjective "felt recoil". Not a good indication of velocity.

It's really hard to aim at the center of a big black circle. I wonder what would happen if you let the entire ball sit on top of the front site? Sure, the group won't be in the center of the target but that's not the point.

One problem I have with rifle shooting to point of aim is that the point disappears and I have a shot up mess to aim at. It's probably better to set the sights to deliver the round a bit high. Six clicks ought to do it and that just happens to be the 'come-up' for 200 yards (my load, my rifle).
Aim small miss small. When I accuracy test @ 25y, I use a 1" black dot.
 
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#32 ·
Exactly...!!!! GREAT call Fred...!!!! Most targets i see posted in forums are usually ridiculous, and some really pitch up a panty fit because they have 10in groups on a 6in target. Sometimes i dont think people REALLY realize how hard it is to hit a target accurately that has a huge black circle. If the circle is smaller, the shooter USAULLY can concentrate the shot more accurately on a smaller dot, in return, smaller tighter groups.

I also notice a couple different styles of paper targets being used in the OP`s post
 
#24 ·
I've only reloaded shotgun shells myself. I have a feeling that rifle and pistol reloading is much more precise than what I used to do.

Question for you loaders - do you have an idea how controlled the critical things are in your loading process vs factory?

For instance - is the bullet weight 124 +/- 1 grain at the factory and 124 +/- 5 grains for the hand loader?

There can't be that many critical factors to control - charge weight, bullet weight, crimp, OAL etc.
 
#26 ·
If you take apart bulk factory ammo, you'll find quite a variation in bullet wts & powder charges. Then weigh cases & find even more variation. It is why handloads can be a lot better than cheap bulk factory. IMO, you have to be hard pressed to compete with quality factory SD ammo, but most of the good JHP are not available to the handloader anyway.
I can control my powder charge to the 1/10gr. If I sort bullets & cases, I can control that to the 2/10gr or better. MY OAL will likely be within +/-0.003", also better than most bulk factory. You control variables as much as your anal retentiveness allows.:D
 
#29 ·
Wanted to try the Hornady HAP 125gr .356 jacketed bullets, but they are backordered. So, ordered some Speer 124gr .355 round nose jacketed bullets and some of the same flavor in Winchester.

Next session will up the powder levels for 115gr and try the new 124gr. Also had my boss give me a box of Speer Gold Dots 124gr HPs, so will try a batch of those.
 
#30 ·
Wanted to try the Hornady HAP 125gr .356 jacketed bullets, but they are backordered. So, ordered some Speer 124gr .355 round nose jacketed bullets and some of the same flavor in Winchester.

Next session will up the powder levels for 115gr and try the new 124gr. Also had my boss give me a box of Speer Gold Dots 124gr HPs, so will try a batch of those.
If you are looking for pure accuracy loads, the XTP & Sierra jhp are a out as good as it gets. The MontanaGold jhp are also very good, in that order.
 
#31 ·
Wanted to try the Hornady HAP 125gr .356 jacketed bullets, but they are backordered. So, ordered some Speer 124gr .355 round nose jacketed bullets and some of the same flavor in Winchester.

Next session will up the powder levels for 115gr and try the new 124gr. Also had my boss give me a box of Speer Gold Dots 124gr HPs, so will try a batch of those.
Vart,
i`ve chased that same 9mm 115gr dog down that same road as you (and so have MANY other reloaders as well), and for more years than i care to admit, with very little success with 115gr bullets. I found that some 115gr to be ok for plinking but never got that great of accuracy from the 115gr in 9mm. The best reloading accuracy i ever got was from sierra 115gr bullets, but still nothing to brag about. Step up to the 124gr bullets, i think you`ll find that the accuracy will come up better for you. Most 124gr bullet surfaces (before the Ogive) will usually have more contact area to the barrel, and this does help the bullet stabilize a little better in most cases over the 115gr bullet. The recoil will also be more of a push with the 124gr instead of a snap that the 115gr is famous for.

My 124gr pet load that works very well in every 9mm i own, as well as all the 9mm`s my wife owns, is Hodgdon CFE-Pistol powder, 4.9gr. Both my wife an i shoot this load all day long, very soft recoil, extremely accurate for us both. The bullets we`re using is the Berry`s 124gr Plated RN. Without looking, i think we`re seating them at 1.150 OAL, light taper crimp. Final crimp is with the LEE taper crimp die. I believe our final crimp diameter is .379.

Our pet load is near max according to load data. Start with a 10% reduction.
I am not responsible for your own reloading errors. Just trying to help you.

Food for thought:
I`ve never had much faith in factory loads, accuracy was all over the place, unless you buy the high priced premium SD ammo, but who can afford to shoot 500rds of SD ammo in a weekend. The (wal-mart type) 115gr bulk ammo, try not to expect much, and you`ll be less disappointed. Mass produced store bought bulk ammo has to be able to function in all guns, what works for you, dosent mean it works for others. With this in mind, accuracy will never be great, for everybody.

I would have a friend or 2, shoot your loads with YOUR gun to see if there is a big difference.
This will usually help figure out if its YOU or the AMMO, in most cases.

PS... measure a handful of bullet diameters, look for consistency...!!!!
 
#34 ·
This is the target I use. I print my own using heavy computer paper. Then using orange Dab O Ink, the marker they use at Bingo games. I fill in the large square with the ink. And leave the small square white. At 25 yards my Dawson fiber optic front sight covers the small white square .
 
#36 ·
As others have noted, your charges with WSF and Unique are too low for best accuracy. I suggest 5.4 grains of WSF with a 115 grain jacketed bullet. Your 4.3 grains of Titegroup should be in the ballpark, but be cautious as Titegroup doesn't give you much margin between "good" and "unsafe".

Powders I like for 115 grain light target loads in 9mm:
Win 231 (aka HP-38)
BE-86
AA #2
Alliant Sport Pistol

But I would try a different bullet before buying more powder. I have had good luck with the Xtreme 115 grain heavy plate concave base (HPCB) bullets, which are cheaper than most jacketed bullets.
 
#37 ·
Just fired 200 rounds of MG 124 grain jhp with 5.6 gr be86 coal set at 1.127 and got cosistant accuracy from both my Gen4 G26 and G19. G19 with Lantac match barrel kept consistant 2.5 inch groups at 10 yards.Thats about as good as I can shoot with my 70 year old eyes and hands. No krono indoor range but load shoud have produced 1100 ft/sec. low recoil.Like be86 . Next loads will go up to 5.7 grains with same coal.
 
#38 ·
Back to the drawing board today with a few more recipes and it was a total disaster, accuracy wise.

I just cannot get this pistol to group. Ironically, my Storm Lake barrel is worse than the stock barrel.

I think I am going to take up my friend's offer to buy the pistol for $500 and just get me a G35 and stick with .40 S&W for matches.

Best group of the day was an awful 3 3/8" 5-shot group at 25yds with 124gr Speer TMJ bullets and 4.0gr of Titegroup.

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Worst was using the Storm Lake barrel and trying to shoot 124gr Winchester FMJ with 4.7gr of WSF. Barely got 2 rounds on paper. Just ridiculous. No wind, using a rest. Inexcusable!

Shooting sport Shooting Recreation Target archery Circle


Most of the other recipes were around 4-5". Just pissed me off to no end to see groups that awful.

I can get around 2" with the G29 and with the low recoil .40 S&W loads I've developed for it, it shoots softer than the 9mm. I just don't see the point in wasting any more time with this pistol for GSSF. Time to just get a G35, I think.
 
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