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Man with permit to carry arrested after downtown Minneapolis shooting

8K views 82 replies 56 participants last post by  Sam___ 
#1 ·
MINNEAPOLIS (KMSP) - It's a sound many weren't expecting to hear on a warm, clear fall afternoon in the heart of downtown Minneapolis.

But what witnesses describe as two gunshots and a short "scuffle" just before 5 p.m. Wednesday broke the genial mood on the corner of 7th Street and Hennepin Avenue, leaving one man injured and another in police custody.

A man who told police he has a permit to carry, later identified as 43-year-old Kevin Martin, was walking with another woman in the area when a group of two men and a 17-year-old possibly surrounded the pair, according to police.

"It just kind of happened all of a sudden," said Courtney Bivens, who saw the entire incident unfold. "There was a little scuffle, so that caught my attention, and when I looked up I saw a guy pull out a weapon."

The first shot, Bivens said, missed Demani Griffith and caused him to run away. Martin then let off a second round as the 18-year-old was fleeing, which Bivens believes was the one that struck Griffith in the leg.

Police said he suffered a non-life threatening injury and was taken to Hennepin County Medical Center for treatment. Meanwhile, Martin was arrested on felony assault charges after being taken to City Hall for questioning.

The intersection of 7th and Hennepin, where the incident took place, represents the heart of downtown Minneapolis--just down the block from the Hennepin Avenue theaters, the First Avenue music club, Target Center and popular restaurants and rooftop bars.

http://www.fox9.com/news/conceal-carry-permit-holder-arrested-after-downtown-shooting
 
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#41 ·
When you carry a firearm you take on a significant responsibiliy. In a split second you may have to use it. Make sure you recognize this before stapping on a firearm. Right or wrong you will be at risk. This person pulled a firesrm, the bad guys tirned to get away and he fired. He will be toast if the facts are as we have read them. If he tried to retreat and they pressed on, and if......the if's will get you every time.
 
#51 ·
The problem we all face is the perception of events by witnesses. Recall can be very sketchy. If your witnesses are the same race /culture/background as your adversary, it might not turn out in your favor.


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#49 ·
This wont end well... i`ll bet he`ll lose his license and all his guns, not to mention, his bank account. After the courts decide his fate, then comes the lawsuits from the 3 bad guys that attacked him. When you carry a firearm LEGALLY, there ARE huge responsibilities and ramifications for it. You DONT shoot at people running away...DUH...!

This is just another case of stupidity on the so-called legal gun owner trying to be another bad-azz. Now he`ll write a book, teach a few classes on what NOT to do when owning a firearm. Happens all the time. I dont feel sorry for dumb people that dont think about the aftermath and what COULD happen BEFORE it happens. Just another sad rambo story going down in flames.

I dunno, i wasn`t there... maybe its just some more fake news again. But what it is, if its a real story, the lib`s will love it, saying heres another good guy incident that really isnt a good guy after-all.
 
#53 ·
As we have limited info, the shot string may be continous. Meaning as he was shooting the bad guy started to turn. I would hold judgement until we have info. If he shot, assessed, and shot again as the scrot was running, he is hosed. He might have also got social and after the first round, and before the second, the scrot was in the motion of the turn.

We have to let the dust settle.

Just saying.

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#54 ·
MINNEAPOLIS (KMSP) - It's a sound many weren't expecting to hear on a warm, clear fall afternoon in the heart of downtown Minneapolis.

But what witnesses describe as two gunshots and a short "scuffle" just before 5 p.m. Wednesday broke the genial mood on the corner of 7th Street and Hennepin Avenue, leaving one man injured and another in police custody.

A man who told police he has a permit to carry, later identified as 43-year-old Kevin Martin, was walking with another woman in the area when a group of two men and a 17-year-old possibly surrounded the pair, according to police.

"It just kind of happened all of a sudden," said Courtney Bivens, who saw the entire incident unfold. "There was a little scuffle, so that caught my attention, and when I looked up I saw a guy pull out a weapon."

The first shot, Bivens said, missed Demani Griffith and caused him to run away. Martin then let off a second round as the 18-year-old was fleeing, which Bivens believes was the one that struck Griffith in the leg.

Police said he suffered a non-life threatening injury and was taken to Hennepin County Medical Center for treatment. Meanwhile, Martin was arrested on felony assault charges after being taken to City Hall for questioning.

The intersection of 7th and Hennepin, where the incident took place, represents the heart of downtown Minneapolis--just down the block from the Hennepin Avenue theaters, the First Avenue music club, Target Center and popular restaurants and rooftop bars.

http://www.fox9.com/news/conceal-carry-permit-holder-arrested-after-downtown-shooting

Martin then let off a second round as the 18-year-old was fleeing, which Bivens believes was the one that struck Griffith in the leg.

This is why.
 
#60 · (Edited)
Too many legal questions still unanswered.
Was even the first shot necessary?
He was arrested AFTER questioning?
He may have hung himself.
This is why we need TRAINING and the NRA & USCCA.
Rule number one - call 911
Tell them your name, location, you feared for your life, you defended yourself - SAY NO MORE!
Next call
is to your legal defense team(s) - NRA & and/or USCCA.
 
#61 ·
I've always been enamored with a good guy's "duty to retreat" mantra in those silly locales where it holds true. What about a perp's duty to abide by the law, and our expectation not to become a victim? Yeah, never mind...


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#62 ·
Authorized as in "when confronted by three or more individuals, whether armed or not lethal force is authorized as a reasonable man has cause to fear death or grievous bodily injury". Not quite sure of exact wording but the word AUTHORIZED stood out to me; as in "go ahead and shoot if threatened".

And yes, if only 2 then lethal force is a no-no, unless you can make a good "disparity of force" argument; ie 70 year old 150lb disabled person threatened by 2 6'+ 350lb Hell's Angles bikers.
Do you happen to have the statute that has this?
 
#64 ·
I don't think I've seen disparity of force precisely defined by metrics such as numbers of assailants (vs numbers of victims), differences in height, weight, age and other factors.

That I know of, it has always been judgement based on "what would a reasonable and prudent person, knowing ........"
 
#63 ·
I've never been in that man's shoes and hope I never am. Not sure that I would react any differently if three people surrounded me. Hopefully I know enough not to shoot at someone fleeing but fear might make me react another way. Can't really say until it happens. And I certainly couldn't make a fair judgement based on an article in a newspaper.
 
#67 · (Edited)
I was living in NYC when the Goetz shooting occurred. Goetz spent about eight months in jail only because of his lack of a handgun permit. As far as the shooting itself was concerned, Goetz was acquitted of criminal wrongdoing.

When I was working in a retail store environment after I had escaped from NYC to NC, two armed perpetrators on two occasions tried to rob me. When I drew and prepared to fire, they both ran away from me. In fact, the second perpetrator broke the store's front door in his haste to get away from me. I held my fire.
Wasn't there a charge and conviction of reckless endangerment?

ETA: Oops - just looked it up - a charge but no conviction.

Bernie worked for a company that calibrates/certifies all types of electrical equipment. A couple of years after the trials were over, I was working in a high-voltage lab (in New Jersey) where all of the calibration labels on the equipment were signed "B. Goetz". I commented a time or two with the guys in the lab that the name sounded really familiar. After a couple of days the guys told me why the name was so familiar. They knew him pretty well - and he was never quite the same after he was attacked, and injured, a couple of years prior to the shooting.
 
#69 ·
I believe this individual will have a super night mare going forward. Even if he is found innocent he will be in civil suit soon enough. Attorney will pick this up quickly. My commonsense tells me he will be found liable. Most likely will be wiped out financially. He may even be liable with his future earnings. Hope he has some type of CCW carry insurance.

I’m wondering too if second shot was just him spinning around and starting to move. And that’s when second shot occurred ( double tapping) Think of it this way shooter draws gun subject was moving spinning, shooter double tapping Second shot caught him in the back of the leg.
 
#70 ·
If after he fired once the three fled or were fleeing the scene, is the threat now over? Did he need to shoot again, shoot at a fleeing suspect?
This may be the deciding factor.

That area lists as the heart of the Minneapolis "nightclub and bar scene" and at night has had some incidents, but daytime.....
 
#73 ·
If this were Washington state, he would probably go to jail. The first shot would have been justified, the second shot, not. He would need to prove that he felt that his life, or someone else's life was in danger as they ran away. Also, if the Perp turned to run, while he was firing would be a different scenario than the perp was running away and he fired at a fleeing suspect. MAKE THE FIRST SHOT COUNT and none of this matters. IMHO
 
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#76 ·
After reading all these posts, most of which make sense in one way or another, the fact remains that if guilty or not the shooter's life will be forever changed. He will definitely have to defend himself in civil court and even if he wins, he loses because of the legal costs. Makes one think about CCW insurance if you carry.
 
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