Our Sig P220Rs were taken from us on 4/28/17, and we were issued brand new Gen 4 17s. I've owned and carried various Glocks off and on since 1999 or 2000, but this is the first one I've been mandated to carry. Although I was actually excited about the swap I was very unimpressed from day one, but since I'm stuck with it I've made a conscious open minded attempt to embrace it.
It's been a little under six months, and I've put 5,172 rounds through this gun to date. My negative opinion has softened a bit due to sheer exposure at the range, but there are other guns I'd pick in heartbeat over it for a duty weapon. The trigger still ain't good (I'd settle for decent), and the slide finish is surprising weak compared to the other guns I've carried over the years. And anything around a couple hundred rounds swells my right hand middle finger knuckle like a grapefruit...I actually thought I was suffering from arthritis at one point.
The one big plus is the gun's reliability. You pull the trigger, and it fires. That's a huge plus regardless of the lack of accuracy and discomfort of prolonged shooting sessions. To date I've only had one single issue with reliability. Last week I had a stovepipe with the gun around the 5,000 round mark. I have one specific mag I've exclusively used for practice, and it will now easily accept 18 rounds of ammo. So, I'm thinking that is a mag issue rather than a gun issue.
I've tried to bond with the gun, but its been a very disappointing effort. It would be one thing if I was the odd man out at work, but as a whole the swap has been received poorly across the board. I hate it hasn't worked out, because I've always liked the idea of the Glock. Surprisingly, I cannot say enough good things about the Gen 5 19 I picked up a few days after they were released. It's everything I've always wanted a Glock to be and everything I sincerely wish my duty issued Glock was right now. Over five thousand rounds through my duty gun and the 19.5 shoots circles around it from day one. The handful of guys at work who have shot the Gen 5s are saying the same thing. I cannot get over how nice this gun is...I've actually retired my Walther PPQ M2 off duty gun for the 19.5. Love it, love it, love it.
So, I finally found the Glock I've always wanted....just a few months after getting the Glock I don't want but will be stuck with for several years to come! Funny how that works. I suspect it won't be long before I come home with the 17.5. Whether you love them or are just okay with them, they are really hard to beat at $398 new or near $300 used.
The physical comfort of shooting the 19.5, especially hundreds of rounds at a time, is very noticeable. This is due to a lack of finger grooves which is part of the problem on my 17. The top finger groove murders my middle finger knuckle.
The other really big one is trigger, trigger, trigger. The two feel like they are completely different guns altogether based on their triggers. The 19.5 feels like a wonderfully broken in trigger that is "just right", and it has felt that way since new. The trigger on the 17 felt rough and in need of work when brand new....over 5,100 rounds later and it feels the same way, in need of aftermarket parts and pieces to help make it what is should have been from the beginning.
Shooting both guns with the exact same ammo produces vastly different groups every time and not just from me. I've let others A/B both of them with the same results. I can't say how much if any is the "marksman" barrel, or just a total combination of that, the trigger, and lack of finger grooves, or some unknown combination of these things. Shooting multiple targets with any kind of speed or while moving really highlights the difference in performance of the two guns.
I do believe the 17 could be made to function as well for me as the 19.5, but it would require an aftermarket trigger and sanding on the frame at a minimum....or I can stick with a bone stock Gen 5 and finally have Glock perfection (for me).
When I retired from the job we were given a cchoice of keeping our Glock 19s 2nd gen or our backup Colt D S 38spl,I opted for the Cick Special cause the Glock had over 10,000 rounds range time and wanted to buy the Newer Glock 19 3rd gen,was never enticed to the 4th gen but no complaints,and the Gen 5s well I am not impressed and dont want one,first issued our Glocks in 1984 !
My Glock 19.5 is my favorite stock Glock out of the box as well. I agree, its trigger feels like a previous Gen Glock witih 2000 rounds down the pipe. Of course, no finger grooves I love.
I did get to purchase my old work Sig. I carried it for five years, and paid a little over $400 to take it home. It was a fine gun for its purpose, and I miss it.
No, we are not allowed to carry anything else but our issued 17s. For a brief time the chief approved personal weapons for on duty carry providing the make and caliber were approved by the armorer. Then he limited it to 9mm only. Then last April he made every single person switch to the new 17s with not exceptions but for him...and his Sig P7. Then he reigned in the range of calibers we can qualify for off duty carry, so no more 10mm or .41 Mag for Scott.
And he has made us all turn in our 12 ga. shotguns. We can't have those, because "they have gone the way of the dodo bird for street law enforcement." Of all the chiefs in all the world I won the bozo lottery.
I think the truth is Glocks are boring. They don't look overly interesting and the stock trigger isn't the best. I learned this when I bought a Glaock 32 after leaving my EDC gun with a LGS for a while. After installing a OEM (-) transfer bar (yes I know your department won't allow and modifications) I learned to have more respect for the Glock, but my EDC is still a 45 ACP Colt Commander (standard weight).
Well unfortunately I to am also going to be loosing my work 226r. My first one was a slightly used wear German 226. Which was turned in for maintenance. That morphed in to a new 226r on Monday. No information just we traded it in here go to shift. Qualifications was next quarter . This time however I do get to purchase it and any one else's who doesn't want it. However no replacement to be issued. WTF.
Seems going to get a sig 400 lower and a virtus l 11.5 upper. Umm yea ok were not in Europe and handguns easier to holster cuffing. Say how about a g19 small cheaper than Sig and sane decision ? But so far Frankenstein Sig is going forward s.
I'm not a fan myself of the full-size Glocks in the lower calibers, such as the 17 and 22. I much prefer the 19 or the 23. The curve of the back strap just fits my hand better on those.
That chief has no idea what the hell he is doing does he/she? Especially taking away the shotguns? Holycrap! That is like the golden staple of every cruiser in every city out there. They are fast, simple, versatile, nothing says "I said, get the F down" like a 12 gauge. Good luck with your "leadership" your gonna need it.
I did get to purchase my old work Sig. I carried it for five years, and paid a little over $400 to take it home. It was a fine gun for its purpose, and I miss it.
No, we are not allowed to carry anything else but our issued 17s. For a brief time the chief approved personal weapons for on duty carry providing the make and caliber were approved by the armorer. Then he limited it to 9mm only. Then last April he made every single person switch to the new 17s with not exceptions but for him...and his Sig P7. Then he reigned in the range of calibers we can qualify for off duty carry, so no more 10mm or .41 Mag for Scott.
And he has made us all turn in our 12 ga. shotguns. We can't have those, because "they have gone the way of the dodo bird for street law enforcement." Of all the chiefs in all the world I won the bozo lottery.
A stovepipe is a failure to extract issue. This is typical with reloads or poor quality range ammo. The ammo doesn't have enough energy (low powder round) to fully cycle the slide. Magazine issues are typically a failure to feed. A weak magazine spring fails to push the round up quick enough for the slide to pick up the new round.
This ☝ or you need to replace the extractor and spring. I would try a couple boxes of new high quality ammo and see if you still stovepipe, if so replace the extractor and spring. And a new recoil spring wouldn't hurt at 5k rounds either.
I did get to purchase my old work Sig. I carried it for five years, and paid a little over $400 to take it home. It was a fine gun for its purpose, and I miss it.
No, we are not allowed to carry anything else but our issued 17s. For a brief time the chief approved personal weapons for on duty carry providing the make and caliber were approved by the armorer. Then he limited it to 9mm only. Then last April he made every single person switch to the new 17s with not exceptions but for him...and his Sig P7. Then he reigned in the range of calibers we can qualify for off duty carry, so no more 10mm or .41 Mag for Scott.
And he has made us all turn in our 12 ga. shotguns. We can't have those, because "they have gone the way of the dodo bird for street law enforcement." Of all the chiefs in all the world I won the bozo lottery.
First, it sounds like your Chief is an idiot. My department issues every officer and road Sgt. a Remington 870 and a Colt Ar15, 16 inch barrel with optics. Both are carried in the patrol vehicle. Both have a place in modern law enforcement. I have seen many bad guys find religion at the business end of a shotgun! The off duty pistol policy is probably backed by a power hungry ego vs a liability issue. I have seen 12 Chiefs come and go in 27 years. We have a strong union and would challenge the shotgun issue with an officer safety grievance. Also, he may be putting citizens in jeopardy by failing to provide officers with the necessary tools to protect them. The news media is also a powerful tool ! Good luck !
My close friend is a LEO where we live. His department issues G22's, patrol vehicle has an 870, and some with rifles, instead of the shotgun. He prefers the 870. They are only allowed to carry department issue on duty and they have an off duty approved carry list. So you have to pick one on the list and qualify with it as well.
I never understood it, I guess they want you to carry what the tax payers spent money on, sure, but if it comes down to knowing an officer is more comfortable and proficient carrying something else, to me that is more important. They would still have to qualify with it. It would be on the officers dime of course if he chose to carry other than standard issue. The only problem I see is money for different caliber ammunition. The department I'm sure wants to limit calibers so it's cheaper and easier purchasing ammunition. So might have to compromise on a standard issue caliber. But if the department has G22's but I want to carry a 229 on my dime and I am better with it I don't see the problem.
Most Chiefs have become unelected politicians. I know 2 currently working making more than 4 in 1 agency & 5 in another. Both prior to being Chiefs spent at least the last 10 years as public information (professional liars). Use White Box for officers to qualify @ 50 rounds a year. Allow M&P .45 in one agency, .40 glock 22’s gen & 3 in another and even a few still have the free .45GAPS they were issued years ago but have to purchase ammo at Wal mart since no one else carries more than 2 boxes in stock. One shot my .357 SIG 226R DAK @ qualification at a car in the junkyard and bought a used 229 for his personal carry. Still has to carry a G22 off duty but somehow it usually gets left in his lockbox. 357 isn’t for everyone but when your backup that’s authorized is a Kel-Tec .380 You have a choice of junk or a 229 and take your chances on being fired especially when your making $34K after 16 years & 9 to go before retirement. Personal choice stay alive & accidentally forget the sig is behind my vest. They still carry 2 separate sets of cuffs on either side of the spine & have had 2 officers injured due to it. A lot still use 4th gen hand me down leather except for a 5.11 Blackhawk holster that the release has failed from being filled with sand. Level II vests that are out of date or hand me downs. My son is working for an armored car service and has better issue.
They shoot accurately all day long, but are light enough that they’re less tolerant of shooter error than a heavier gun. Hard to change to a new platform when you loved your old one. Good job staying proficient and putting that many rounds down range.
I feel your pain, brother. Back in my revolver days, I worked for a Fed who thought speedloaders were witchcraft and who tried to make everyone, lefties included, wear right handed holsters for uniformity's sake. The one Model 15 we had in inventory stayed in the safe because it looked different than our HB Model 10s. Too bad some dinosaurs don't know they are extinct and some higher ups perpetually confuse management with leadership.
To the OP, thank you for a great review of your duty 17 and the Gen 5 19. Your experience in dealing with these two weapons is an excellent front line perspective. I will revisit the Gen 5 19 now, as I had been leaning towards the new M&P 2.0 Compact. As a civilian, I don’t have to deal with that type of departmental politics, but it helps me appreciate what you guys are up against.
I threw in the towel yesterday, ran down to GT's, and picked up a Gen 5 17 with Ameriglos ($476 plus tax). I had a co-worker come up to the range, and we did a comparison between the 17.5 and our Gen 4s. We both prefer the Gen 5...it wasn't even close actually.
I have over 5,100 rounds through my six month old Gen 4, and the Gen 5 trigger smokes it brand new out of the box. The Gen 5 produced much tighter groups for both of us.
I know I've read multiple comments about folks not being able to notice a difference "at the counter in the gun store", but the difference in triggers between the Gen 4 and Gen 5 was very noticeable to both of us on the range.
Now I feel like I'll be riding a donkey to work while knowing I have a fine race horse locked in a stall at home. :ack:
Sorry to hear about your situation brother. I, spent 12 years carrying issued Sig Sauer P-220R pistols. First, the standard model, then the "Carry" model for plain clothes duty. I learned to shoot the pistol well, but never liked it. In fact, hardly any of the hundred, or so guys I worked with seemed to like them. To me, they were heavy, had grip screws and other small parts that would rust in my humid area even with frequent maintenance, had very heavy trigger pulls in double action, and carried far too few rounds for uniformed duty. The same agency had issued us Remington 870's with Surefire forends and 14" barrels, along with AR-15's in every car. So... It wasn't all bad. Still, the P-220R is not a pistol I miss. (I do greatly miss the P-229R DAK .357 SIG that I foolishly sold).
At my current job, I carry my personally owned Glock 19 when in uniform, and I love it. Mine is a Gen 3. I spend most of my time in plain clothes though, and for that... I'm authorized to carry my G42, and/or G43. The only thing that I miss about the firearms policy of my old agency was that we could carry whatever we wanted to off duty. Where I'm at now... You are limited to the number of pistols you can qualify on, and you can only carry those pistols whether on duty or off.
Here is the only picture I currently have of both my Gen 5 handguns.
My first Sig P220 I carried was back in 1998. You could walk that gun past a coffee pot, and it would rust. It was very prone to it. This most recent one, issued in 2012, was much improved as rusting went except for the grip screws. They finally took on a brown patina that became permanent.
I might take that down if I were you... If you ever got into a shooting situation how would that help you if it got into the press or a courtroom. Not trying to make a statement here. Merely an observation.
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