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G20 and failures to feed.

4K views 40 replies 11 participants last post by  rogn 
#1 ·
Iv been pursueing this on my G20 for some time, even on 10mm forum. Ive found if I can lock both wrists and force recoil to take arms up, it may feed properly. Have found that cleaning and drylubeing magazine will decrease #s of FTFs. This seems to occur only with hunting loads(>700FP KE) , light loads behave pretty near 100%. Im comfortable letting the pistol recoil and can bring it back on target in less than1sec. Limp wrist-i dont really know. I dont find fighting to "lock" everything tightly is particularly conducive to accurate shooting. I would rather find a way to have this gun function "normally" with the heavy loads.
The failures are almost always the same with the front of the slide riding up on the case body ahead of the extractor groove. The bullet is trying to enter the chamber but the slide has it trapped midbody. A stronger mag spring makes a slight improvement, but they continue to occur. 3 levels of recoil spring dont help if at all. The problem seems to be that with the heavy loads the slide velocity is fast enough that the next round in the magazine cant rise fast enough to get in front of the slide and gets trapped.
Any ideas?
 
#2 ·
What # recoil spring??
 
#6 ·
Any way to slow the slides movement so the rounds can pop up to get in front of the slide. The clean the magazine and dry lube has been the only real improvement. Ill try hand polishing the ammo prior to loading magazine.
Ive seen other posts where owners of G20s have had similar problems, but Ive not seen anyone posting a cure.
 
#8 · (Edited)
This seems to occur only with hunting loads(>700FP KE) , light loads behave pretty near 100%?
What is "700FP KE"? Do you mean 700 FPS (Feet Per Second)? That would be way too slow to cycle a G20 properly. Do you mean 230gr bullets with Hunting loads? Those should travel at least 1000+ FPS.


I found shorting to oal .010 helped my g20.
OAL of .010? You don't make much sense, Sir. OAL = Over All Length. You mean shortening OAL BY .010.



I suggest opening this thread in the reloading forum and providing proper data.
 
#10 ·
1.) This is not archery, and if he meant ft-lbf (foot-pound force), he should use the proper units.

2.) 1.360" minus 0.010" would be still too long for 10mm. Without complete data (bullet weight and form / version, powder weight, powder used, primer used) this is not going anywhere, as one can see.

Reloading, ballistics and gunsmithing are not the places to be vague or imprecise.
 
#13 ·
Sorry, I thought seven hundred foot pounds kinetic energy would be clear. This is with a variety of loads that produce this level of energy to satisfy states mandate for handgun hunting. For example a 200 gr(grain) Hornady XTP hollow point driven by 13+ grains of AA#9 powder. This produces an average of 1275 FPS(feet per second) even with the std Glock barrel, a bit more with the Lone Wolf 6 ". COL(cartridge over all length) is nominally 1.255". We have been up and down from 1.245" to 1.260" with minor adjustments in charge level. The issue seems to center around slide velocity being too high even with a 24# recoil spring and magazine velocity being too low. The next cartridge cannot get high enough in the column in order for the slide to contact the case head instead it catches on the case body forward of of the extractor groove. Light loads those producing from 1100-1200FPS(feet per second) with 180 gr(grain) bullets function 100% now matter how I hold the pistol or what position its in. Fifteen rounds in the magazine do not affect the function.
Im wondering if there is some way to speed up magazine advancement, so the case head can be picked up by the slide moving forward.(mentioned in originating post). This seems more of an issue that might be addressed by some one with experience in gunsmithing Glocks or other marques. Not reloading forum.
 
#17 ·
Well so be it the performance with the factory spring is a tad worse than with the 20# spring. The magazine seems to be the major issue. The G20 mags seem sluggish to me. The 200grain bullet only add to the problem due to inertia. Stronger Wolff mag springs improve the results only slightly if at all.
 
#18 ·
Ok looking through Hodgdon 10mm load data 1.260" is what I started on for oal .
I've only used long shot with 180gr fmj and 200gr xtps . Checked some rds and I have them set to 1.250 and 9.2gr of long shot with 180gr bullets don't remember what weight I used with 200gr . Not familiar with the powder you are using, but it sounds like you are above what I load .
I haven't used many 200gr xtp but I do remember the slide was moving pretty good with them.
You are not using any extended magazine base pads are you ?? I tried ordandos (How ever you spell it) and found they were a no go in my g20 very weak on pushing up the rounds through the magazine and that was with there supplied spring . Finally gave up on that and went to fresh glock oem magazines.
 
#19 ·
Magazines are stock with the only change in 2 of 3 is a 10% stronger spring. With Longshot I was using 9.5gr with 180gr XTP, close to 9 gr with 200 gr XTP. Object was to satisfy the MD's DNR requirement of 700 FP of KE. Any load of less intensity performs at 100%.
 
#20 · (Edited)
Switch powders...

Accurate #9 will get you the power you seek, with a lot less pressure... And quite possibly slightly alter the slide velocity.

1,256 fps (700 ft. lbs.) with a 200 grain XTP is no easy task within published load data....

You could also get a 6" barrel, that will delay the slide ever so slightly as well... More weight in the slide/barrel assembly... At the very least it will give you more power from lighter loads.

I have one I'd sell... Factory Glock 6" barrel... Less than 50 rounds on it, the factory barrel to my G40, it will work in the G20.
 
#21 ·
I understand you are trying to keep the slide locked up longer by using heavier recoil springs . Here is the thing your slowing the slide some coming out of battery but you are speeding it up returning to battery and the slide is out running the magazine . It may be better to start thinking if you can mechanically keep the slide and barrel locked up longer and try to keep the return to battery speed slower to keep up with the magazine.
Maybe gunsmith fitted Barrel?
Maybe adding weight to the slide ? Maybe milled fitted locking block if some one makes one for g20.
Maybe there's some rsa that can accomplish that than just using brute strength.
 
#24 ·
Thread title should be "Modified G20 fails to feed with ammunition that violates SAAMI spec."
It's like watching an episode of Columbo to figure out what the O.P. did to the gun and the ammunition. It's an even bigger mystery why.
 
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#26 ·
As stated AA#9 is one of the powders Ive used looking for the magic load. I can reach 700 fot pounds in either the stock barrel or the LW 6". Ive been fooling with this pistol for the past couple of years and have tried every powder commonly used in the 10mm. Incidentally the LW 6" barrel is noticeably choked at the muzzle end. I lapped the barrel since the tool marks were prominent. Barrels appear to be broached. Post lapping the practice load Im using stays in the 2" range at 30 yards. Best I can do with age ravaged vision.
Thanks for the offer,665. And thanks, Guys, for the current responses, they show a lot more thought than what came earlier.
 
#27 ·
You may modify the thread, at your discretion. What Im interested in is a reasonable attainable solution. As I mentioned earlier there have been numerous threads reporting this FTF(failure to Feed) with the G20. Thus far over the past year or 2 there have been no confirmed cures. Again my thanks to those who have put some thought toward a solution.
 
#28 ·
Thread title should be "Modified G20 fails to feed with ammunition that violates SAAMI spec."
It's like watching an episode of Columbo to figure out what the O.P. did to the gun and the ammunition. It's an even bigger mystery why.
Both my G20 SF and Gen4 have been less reliable in stock form,
this is a test of factory ammo I did with them, I was pissed, the
G30 with the LW G29 4.6 barrel has been more reliable.

==========================================

I have shot and chronoed the UW 180, 200 and 220gr in both the g20 SF and
the gen4, they were all with the 800X powder.

The 180gr TMJ, the stock SF had one nose down in the magazine jam in ten shots,
fps was 1262, with the 6.6'' LW barrel and ten shots, no jams and 1364fps, with the
gen 4 g20 fifteen shots no jams and 1270fps, with the g30 and the g29 4.6'' LW barrel
no jams in ten shots and 1272fps, will get some more of this good stuff.

The 200gr TMJ had three nose to left of chamber jams on the stock gen 4 in ten
shots, ave fps was 1138fps, the stock SF had one nose to left of chamber
in ten shots, fps 1146, with the 6.6''LW barrel, NO JAMS in 10 shots, fps 1221,
with the g30 with the LW 4.6'' g29 barrel one nose down in the magazine jam,
will not get this ammo any more, not enough power and jams.

I did have a 22# RSA in the g30 and think the stock may have done better.

With the UW 220gr cast in the SF G20 no jams and 1128fps and no smiles,
gen4 g20 no jams, 1165fps and big smiles, not good, with the G30 with the
LW g29 4.6'' barrel 1194fps with no jams and no smiles and super accurate,
with the 6.6'' LW barrel 1230 fps no jams and no smiles.

The OEM barrels leaded bad and I would not shoot them with the UW 220gr
cast loads anymore.

The LW barrels have been more reliable and more accurate than the stock
barrels in both the g20 SF and the gen 4 and even in the G30 with the LW 4.6'' barrel

I believe that the extra weight of the 6.6'' barrel slows the slide down
enough to make the gun more reliable, JMHO.
 
#31 ·
Both my G20 SF and Gen4 have been less reliable in stock form...
Sad to hear.
But, not my experience at all. Except for a box of Blazer Aluminum case ammo, all seven of my box stock Glocks have been flawless on factory ammunition. I had a few hiccups with my own reloads, but they were quickly sorted out as all these guns have mainly had a steady and reliable diet of my reloads. Early on with my 10mm ammunition, I found that Federal ammunition mike'd the case mouth a hair under what the Hornady manual stated, and that emulating the Federal ammunition specs solved the issue (light primer strikes). :dunno:
I have one Lone Wolf .40 S&W barrel which I got for my Glock 29 and it was flawless and accurate with a box of Winchester White box ammo.
I also put a Bar Sto semi drop in barrel in my Glock 21 which worked flawlessly and seemed to tighten the groups up a bit at fifteen yards. :dunno: Kind of fun to do but sort of unnecessary.
I've considered putting a Bar Sto semi drop in barrel in my Glock 34, but there are other new toys to put that money toward.
 
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#29 ·
1.) This is not archery, and if he meant ft-lbf (foot-pound force), he should use the proper units.

2.) 1.360" minus 0.010" would be still too long for 10mm. Without complete data (bullet weight and form / version, powder weight, powder used, primer used) this is not going anywhere, as one can see.

Reloading, ballistics and gunsmithing are not the places to be vague or imprecise.
Sure thing there, Chief. :)

Keith
 
#30 ·
1.) How many rounds have been through that G20?

2.) What lubrication do you use and where do you apply it?

3.) Can you post photos of the ramp, the chamber and a couple of the FTF cases with the scratches from the ramp / slide / extractor?

4.) Do those cases come from the same batch? Are they spec?

5.) What brand resizing dies do you use?

6.) Do the springs in your mags slide in and out easily or do they hang sometimes?
 
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