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Do you carry...

Without safety do you carry loaded or unloaded

46K views 529 replies 208 participants last post by  PhotoFeller 
#1 ·
I know this has been discussed ad infinitum so I thought I would just add to the clutter.

Being new to Glocks and having always owned auto pistols that had a hammer safety or trigger safety this is a new experience for me. Revolvers are a different story as they take a little more effort to get the hammer to fall.

I know the real safety is your trigger finger.



Just curious about the results. I imagine that they will be close to 100% carry. As no one wants to risk the time it would take to load the chamber in a life or death situation.
 
#39 ·
I carry with one in the chamber with all my weapons, I tell new guys that just get a ccp to carrry with nothing in chamber it only takes seconds to chambers rounds, then after 2-3 months i tell em to start carrying hot because they are more used to carrying the weapon, it's worked for 20 or so guys so seems like a good program.
 
#40 ·
So despite the fact that you know it's best to carry with a round in the chamber, you advise new carriers to put themselves at a marked disadvantage that could cost them their lives? It seems like it would be better for you to encourage them to get training instead, that way they would feel comfortable carrying with a round in the chamber right away.
 
#43 ·
i am not recommending this but for the sake of argument:

what if the magazine was loaded and the slide was locked back in your holster so all you would need to do was press the slide release as you drew.

seems like the middle ground of this conversation.....
1. Would make the gun harder to conceal.
2. The gun could slip off slide lock while in the holster, and now be in a jammed state.
3. You're exposing the inner workings of the gun to the elements.

Nope, can't think of a single good reason to do this.
 
#44 ·
Anyone that would carry a pistol for self defense, with a empty chamber, has not had proper training.

Anyone that feels a empty chamber is ok, use a unloaded pistol, and have a friend attack you, (not hurt you), grab you, punch you, push you, rob you, etc...

While you are defending yourself with one hand, your other hand will draw your pistol. You won't be able to rack the slide/load the pistol. Add more than one bad guy, in the dark, rain, close quarters, etc and it will even more difficult to draw/load your pistol.
You will quickly learn a empty chamber is a mistake.

Training, Training, and more Training.

:cool:
 
#46 ·
I agree with you from a legal stand point in some situations that vary by state. From the EDC defensive stand point of this thread if the chamber is empty the gun is not loaded. You can chose whatever definition you want, carry however you want and defend it however you want.
In the end, doesn't the legal definition of a term trump anything we may perceive? :dunno:

Still, I stand by your opinion that proper carry is a chambered round.

Just curious by your definition (DISCLAIMER DO NOT DO THIS!!!!!), if one were to have a round in their Glock's chamber, but the striker not cocked, requiring partial movement of the slide in order to fire, is that gun "loaded"? How about a 1911 with the hammer lowered on a chambered round, AKA condition 2. Is that gun considered "loaded" by your definition?
 
#47 ·
The legal definition only comes into the argument when one breaks the law. Are the range master rules law?

I would not carry that way and
by my definition they would not be loaded.

In a gunfight would you consider them loaded, or malfunctioning?
 
#49 ·
The legal definition only comes into the argument when one breaks the law. Are the range master rules law?
Rule of law, no. But if I'm at a match walking around with a gun with a loaded magazine in it, I'll be DQ'd from the match for having a loaded firearm. That's enough for me.

I would not carry that way and
by my definition they would not be loaded.
Nor would I carry that way. We agree on the "what", just not on the terminology.

In a gunfight would you consider them loaded, or malfunctioning?
Loaded, but not ready to fire. No different than if the gun was loaded per your definition, but had a manual safety that was engaged.

We agree what to do, just not what to call it. Agree to disagree there. :cheers:
 
#50 ·
Once you completely understand the way the Glock safeties work, you will feel better about carrying with one in the chamber.

Glock is a partially cocked striker design. The only way for me to carry it is with a round in the chamber. Anything else could take too long in the unlikely event I ever need to use it.

Once you fully understand how a Glock works, you should feel much more comfortable. The gun cannot fire without the trigger being pulled unless at least two of the safeties fail at once AND the gun has a sudden movement or impact strong enough for the inertia of the firing pin to ignite the primer. In other words the odds of an AD/ND are about the odds of hitting the powerball unless you snag the trigger on something which can and will fire a round. Choosing a good holster, clothes that are difficult to get snagged in the trigger guard, and following the finger off the trigger fundamental safety rule are all the worry you need to have with a Glock.
That's some constructive advice.

The OP never said where he would carry, what his level of training or experience is, if he has the ability to actually get any quality training or if he was or wasn't actually carrying a round in the chamber or not. He asked a legit question and got brow beat for it.

I have a friend who was never in the military, not in Law Enforcement, never had any formal training and is a very good shot. He started off carrying with no round in the chamber of a Glock 30. He had carried a S&W 686, fully loaded, for years. When he made the switch I asked him about the chamber. His reply, I don't go out to much and I avoid locations where I think trouble could be. I avoid confrontation and mind my own business. I want my gun primarily for in the woods and if I ever draw on a person I will probably have put a lot of thought into it before doing so. I practice drawing and clambering for that reason.

I thought his response was well thought out and made sense for him. He has since become more comfortable with the Glock and carries with a round in the chamber. Did it make him wrong in the beginning, nope. Was it dangerous for him, not with the thought he had put into it.

Would I carry a handgun on me that way, no. But I also have almost 30 years of good training under my belt and just as many years of practical handgun experience.
 
#53 · (Edited)
An unloaded gun is just a crappy hammer
The question wasn't an unloaded gun, it was an unloaded chamber, with the implication of a loaded magazine in place.
I guess your definition of loaded is different than mine, I consider a gun unloaded when anything short of disengaging any safeties and pressing the trigger doesn't result in a bang no matter how manny rounds are "in" the gun.

The two loudest noises in the universe are a "click" when you expect a "bang" and a "bang" when you expect a "click".
I understood what you ment. If there is not a round in the chamber the gun is unloaded. There is no legitimate reason to carry a modern simi automatic pistol without a round in the chamber.
ETA: I saw that there is a similar discussion of the definition of "loaded" after I posted this.

IDPA, USPSA, IPSC, NROI, NRA, ATA, NSSA, and IMG all consider a firearm to be loaded if there is a round in the/a chamber, (inserted) magazine, (inserted) clip, or cylinder.

State laws vary, but most (but not all) states that define "loaded" have a similar definition to that above. For states that do not define "loaded", most instructors and references (such as Handgun Law US) recommend using a similar definition to what is stated above.

A hammer (rock, brick, etc.) cannot possibly be a fully functioning firearm in fractions of a second. So if your understanding is that a semi-automatic pistol with a loaded magazine in place without a round is the chamber is a hammer (crappy or not), rock, brick etc. one or more of the following applies to you [1] you heard someone say this and thought it was cute to repeat - but didn't think it through very well, [2] don't know too much about guns, [3] you don't know too much about laws that apply to guns, [4] you don't know much about using guns for defense, [5] you don't know too much about using guns for organized competition and/or [6] simple logic is slightly out of your grasp.


As an example: Person "A" is facing an aggressor at 20 paces and has a gun with a loaded magazine in place without a round in the chamber - and person "B" is facing an aggressor at 20 paces with a cheap 22 oz plastic and metal hammer - and you have a choice to be person "A" or person "B" - which one are you going to choose?

I think most people here would pick "A", and further, most people here would think that actually choosing "B" would be pretty stupid.

And while it is certainly not my preference to carry a firearm (for defensive purposes) without a round in the chamber, there are valid reasons - for some people, in some circumstances - to carry in this manner; and is much better than carrying a hammer, rock or brick in most defensive circumstances.
 
#54 · (Edited)
It always struck me as funny (odd, not ha ha) that nobody is afraid to carry concealed, with a round in the chamber, a standard Sig P220, P225, P226, P228, P229, P239 which also lack a safety but have 12 lb D/A trigger pull for the first shot. But shooters then get the hebie jebies over a Glocks 6 lbs trigger pull.

For under $8.00 a user can add a Glock OEM NY1 (8lb) or a NY2 (12lb) trigger spring and not have to train to use Sigs flaky DA/SA transition. Problem solved??
 
#55 ·
It always struck me a funny (odd, not ha ha) that nobody is afraid to carry concealed, with a round in the chamber, a standard Sig P220, P225, P226, P228, P229, P239 which also lack a safety but have 12 lb D/A trigger pull for the first shot. But shooters then get the hebie jebies over a Glocks 6 lbs trigger pull.

For under $8.00 a user can add a Glock OEM NY1 (8lb) or a NY2 (12lb) trigger spring and not have to train to use Sigs flaky DA/SA transition. Problem solved??
First off, I'll state I have no issue carrying a Glock "ready to go". But I do understand the difference, as the Sig P22- has a hammer for safer re-holstering (that doesn't imply a Glock is "unsafe") and it's not just the weight, but length of pull of a DA. Finally, when a Sig DA/SA is decocked, there is no stored energy within the firearm to ignite the cartridge, unlike a semi-cocked or fully-cocked striker fired gun. Again, I have no issue, but I do understand the differences.
 
#59 ·
The process for unloading/clearing a handgun are:

Point in safe direction
Remove source of ammunition
Rack the slide to clear the chamber
Visually check that the chamber and mag well are clear

If you re-introduce the source of ammunition, the handgun would again be loaded...IMHO
 
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#62 ·
You are much better off with a fully loaded revolver than an auto with an empty chamber.

Excellent point. Also a glock loaded is essentially the same as a loaded revolver. Nothing fires without pulling the trigger.

I mostly carry 1911’s and people look at a cocked and locked firearm with a grip safety and tell me it looks scary to them. What is keeping the glock or revolver from being fired. ??? Less would be the answer.

Of course when carrying CCW I get no comments because nobody can see a gun at all.

At competitions I hear stupid comments from “ gun owners “ that know nothing.
 
#63 ·
People being people, the majority believe they will know what to do and what they WILL do in a life or death situation. I guarantee that most will forget everything they say they will do when typing on a keyboard, and everything they think they can do when shooting a paper target, and fingers will go straight to the trigger. I know people that could score 100 on the range all the time, who have fired at perps at close range and missed 90% of their shots. It's what it is.
And it is stupid to carry without a round in the tube.
 
#64 ·
People being people, the majority believe they will know what to do and what they WILL do in a life or death situation. I guarantee that most will forget everything they say they will do when typing on a keyboard, and everything they think they can do when shooting a paper target, and fingers will go straight to the trigger. I know people that could score 100 on the range all the time, who have fired at perps at close range and missed 90% of their shots. It's what it is.
And it is stupid to carry without a round in the tube.
The majority of people don't know the benefit of training to muscle memory, don't train enough to gain muscle memory, couldn't tell you what a natural point of aim is and have never trained under stress. They probably truly believe that they will remember to rack the slide coming out of the holster, but in all actuality will only hear the loudest sound in a gun fight... Click ...
 
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#66 ·
Guns are dangerous. And putting something on them that's called a "Safety" doesn't make them safe. A 1911 is a single action gun and the thumb safety is actually a hammer lock and release devise. a Glock is essentially a DA Only gun and doesn't need such a device.

A Glock does not need a safety any more than a DA revolver does. Yes, a revolver has a heavier trigger pull so The NYPD made the Glock trigger pull heavier but that just made the gun more difficult to shoot accurately.

The Glock factory trigger pull is the right balance between safety and functionality. The more you shoot your Glock the better the trigger pull will feel to you.
I've seen more AD/ND with 1911 types pistols than Glocks. That said if something happens where I need to draw there is no guarantee that I will have 2 hands to rack the slide or have the ability to do it one handed, so yes I keep a round in the chamber.
However, I disagree that the NY1 trigger makes the Glock more difficult to shoot accurately. I have installed the NY1 spring on all my Glocks for 20 years. I like the feel of the trigger and have no trouble and see no accuracy difference.
 
#68 ·
I've seen more AD/ND with 1911 types pistols than Glocks. That said if something happens where I need to draw there is no guarantee that I will have 2 hands to rack the slide or have the ability to do it one handed, so yes I keep a round in the chamber.
However, I disagree that the NY1 trigger makes the Glock more difficult to shoot accurately. I have installed the NY1 spring on all my Glocks for 20 years. I like the feel of the trigger and have no trouble and see no accuracy difference.
"I disagree that the NY1 trigger makes the Glock more difficult to shoot accurately. I have installed the NY1 spring on all my Glocks for 20 years. I like the feel of the trigger and have no trouble and see no accuracy difference."

I don't doubt that with enough practice that you or anyone else can shoot the NY1 trigger accurately but the NYPD did not do well with it.

I think that the stock trigger on the Glock is just about right but a little heavier trigger pull wouldn't be bad either, and I think something in between the standard pull and the NY1 would probably be ideal. One thing I've learned about the Glock trigger is that the more time you spend shooting the gun the better the trigger gets.
 
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