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Medical EDC - IFAK and tourniquets

8K views 116 replies 38 participants last post by  TacticalDesire 
#1 ·
Was wondering if anyone here carries a tourniquet or other IFAK items with their edc.

I've always been under the impression that if you're not properly trained, you have no business using a tourniquet (for liability reasons).

Seems among EDC gear, these items within the medical aspect are carried often by a mix of people, both trained and untrained..

Thoughts?


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#2 ·
In theory...If you're carrying a firearm you should have a tourniquets.
Extremety wounds have a high fatality rate but are easily treated with a tourniquet.
I have only gone as far as have an IFAk/GSW kit in my personal vehicle and one attached to my range bag.
 
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#4 ·
I agree. I have a med bag in my range bag as well with a CAT tourniquet and I also carry combat gauze with an Israeli tourniquet in my edc book bag.

I've read some things on the stance that you should carry medical especially if you carry while others state if you don't know how to properly use one of these tools you have no business doing so.

Example- could you imagine someone bleeding you, you place a tourniquet on them improperly to where it either does nothing or makes the bleed worse, now the result is either death or they lost a limb? That's a huge liability. Just like any tool these need practicing also.

I fully support medical carry as I've done it pretty much since I started my ccw journey three years ago.

But you have to wonder if or what the consequences would be if improperly used without medical background or experience using these items.

Think of CPR, life saving common sense sort of drill. Why is there certifications for it? Because the average person really doesn't know what they're doing they just think they do. But they don't understand the fundamentals of why each step in CPR is important or has its place. CPR on a baby or child is also different from an adult. The same for covering trauma wounds or stopping bleeding.


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#5 ·
I carry a flat-folded SOFT-W TQ everywhere, and then have a CAT in each vehicle, my EDC bag, range bag, Camelbak, battle belt, etc. Other gear, too (shears, combat gauze, izzy dressings, chest seals, etc). I made a bunch if kits with those items for every vehicle I drive and bag I carry or wear, but that SOFT-W goes with me everywhere.

And yes, I'm trained how to use all of it. I recommend Dark Angel Medical, Lone Star Medics, or Greg Ellifritz.
 
#6 ·
Now from your opinion based on being trained and what you've been taught, has the instructor said in order to properly apply these techniques you NEED to be trained or is this for the common everyday person?

What is the possibility if someone applies a tourniquet improperly. What sort of consequences are there?

I ask because although I carry a swat tourniquet with shears and guard in my edc bag, I do leave the CAT tourniquet home. I'm under the impression you are either trained or have no business carrying these items. I'm not fully on either side, but that impression allows me to think more outside of the box.

You see tons of videos or blogs or articles on medical edc and it can be confusing. Some give good value while others are just garbage and improper training.


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#8 ·
Now from your opinion based on being trained and what you've been taught, has the instructor said in order to properly apply these techniques you NEED to be trained or is this for the common everyday person?

What is the possibility if someone applies a tourniquet improperly. What sort of consequences are there?

I ask because although I carry a swat tourniquet with shears and guard in my edc bag, I do leave the CAT tourniquet home. I'm under the impression you are either trained or have no business carrying these items. I'm not fully on either side, but that impression allows me to think more outside of the box.

You see tons of videos or blogs or articles on medical edc and it can be confusing. Some give good value while others are just garbage and improper training.


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I can teach you to apply a TQ in about five minutes. High and tight is all you need to know, really. As high on the extremity as you can place it and tight enough for the uncontrollable bleeding (that led you to utilize the TQ) to stop.

Applying it wrong means that you either didn't put it on tight enough (so that person bleeds out), or you put it on in he wrong place (too low on extremity), so that the person bleeds out, or you put it around their neck. Hard to screw it up and I cannot imagine being held in some way responsible for anything bad. Either you save their life or they die, which they would have anyway.
 
#81 ·
Wouldn't good Samaritan laws also apply to a tourniquet? As with CPR if you get panicked and don't do it by the book as long as you were acting in good faith you are protected. I may be wrong though.
 
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#9 ·
Now from your opinion based on being trained and what you've been taught, has the instructor said in order to properly apply these techniques you NEED to be trained or is this for the common everyday person?

What is the possibility if someone applies a tourniquet improperly. What sort of consequences are there?

I ask because although I carry a swat tourniquet with shears and guard in my edc bag, I do leave the CAT tourniquet home. I'm under the impression you are either trained or have no business carrying these items. I'm not fully on either side, but that impression allows me to think more outside of the box.

You see tons of videos or blogs or articles on medical edc and it can be confusing. Some give good value while others are just garbage and improper training.


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By the way, the SWAT TQ basically sucks. Good for pets and kids, and better than nothing, but only the CAT and SOFT-W are TCCC approved. You said you have a bag, so carrying the CAT shouldn't be a big deal for you.
 
#10 ·
I should start carrying the CAT again. This is my current edc in my book bag.



Some shears, SWAT TQ, and quick clot.

I'd actually like to work on another kit and maybe add a few minor things. A nasal tube would be a good add and some extra gauze.

In my range bag I have the tactical voodoo kit. Pretty basic, but plenty of decent items. I should probably buy another CAT or two. Maybe leave one in the car and for range bag.


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#11 ·
I'm still trying to figure out how a tourniquet could make bleeding worse.
 
#13 ·
I keep a first aid kit in all the cars and rotate the bandages with fresh ones each year. I am not going to carry medical supplies on my person unless I in the wilderness.
 
#15 ·
I carry a CAT and Israeli Bandage in my range bag and in my car FAK. Learned how to use them in a course taught by an FD tactical paramedic. As a Good Samaritan, no TQ certification required. No certification is required for a Good Samaritan to use CPR.

Liability wise, giving CPR, using a TQ, or an Israeli Bandage for real, with good or bad technique, should be covered under Good Samaritan laws. When you start packing gauze into peoples body, that may require you to demonstrate some kind of training.
 
#18 ·
Was wondering if anyone here carries a tourniquet or other IFAK items with their edc.

I've always been under the impression that if you're not properly trained, you have no business using a tourniquet (for liability reasons).

Seems among EDC gear, these items within the medical aspect are carried often by a mix of people, both trained and untrained..

Thoughts?


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I carry the Pocket VOK everywhere I go. Either in a back or cargo pocket of my pants. I also keep a CAT tourniquet in my pocket in pants that will accommodate, and a well stocked full kit in my personal car/work vehicle.

There is no reason not to get training in first aid/CPR and carry medical equipment. It always astounds me when people who walk around with guns look at me like I have three heads for trying to figure out how to save somebody's life.

Hell, even if you were 0% capable of using said equipment, merely carrying it with you and having it available may help, since someone who does know what to do may be present, but be completely unequipped themselves.
 
#19 ·
I'm still trying to figure out how a tourniquet could make bleeding worse.
If you put one on to loosely it can restrict return blood flow causing the blood to go out through the injury site rather than return to the circulatory system. In my more than thirty years in EMS, most of that time as a Paramedic, I never had to use a TQ for more than a minute or so. That was most often a BP cuff, and then set up a pressure bandage.

Hope that answered your question.
 
#46 ·
No, maybe if you put it on below the injury site, but by and large the blood is still coming out at whatever the CO dictates. Otherwise I still do not see it making the hemorrhage worse.
 
#20 ·
Okay folks... I would highly suggest that unless you have in fact been trained to at least EMT-I level you do not attempt an intubation. Things like tubing someone have a bad habit of going drastically wrong. And nasal tubes are even more prone to having problems. Someone asked why would you intubate someone. The most common reason, by far is respiratory collapse, as in a cardiac arrest situation. Acute respiratory failure is also another reason for intubation.
See here and look for indications and problems associated.
https://www.google.com/search?q=endotracheal+intubation&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
 
#22 ·
As other have alluded to, medical interventions like tourniquets and airway adjuncts have their place. Knowing when to use them is one thing. Knowing when to NOT use them is equally important.

If you are considering supplementing your readiness supplies with any variety of medical supplies, take the time to get appropriate training (sounds a lot like owning a firearm and then training with it, right?).

Red Cross first aid- http://www.redcross.org/m/take-a-class/first-aid/first-aid-training

Better yet, join a local rescue squad or fire dept. They will spend lots of time and money to train you, and they desperately need your help.
 
#94 ·
As other have alluded to, medical interventions like tourniquets and airway adjuncts have their place. Knowing when to use them is one thing. Knowing when to NOT use them is equally important.

If you are considering supplementing your readiness supplies with any variety of medical supplies, take the time to get appropriate training (sounds a lot like owning a firearm and then training with it, right?).

Red Cross first aid- http://www.redcross.org/m/take-a-class/first-aid/first-aid-training

Better yet, join a local rescue squad or fire dept. They will spend lots of time and money to train you, and they desperately need your help.
THIS^^^^^^^100%
 
#23 ·
Was wondering if anyone here carries a tourniquet or other IFAK items with their edc.

I've always been under the impression that if you're not properly trained, you have no business using a tourniquet (for liability reasons).

Seems among EDC gear, these items within the medical aspect are carried often by a mix of people, both trained and untrained..

Thoughts?
Over the years, I have seen a lot of "tourniquets" that were only causing tissue damage and weren't needed at all. People think that since used in combat, they are the end all in the civilian world.
Liability? Most places have good Samaritan laws, but are you willing to take a chance for someone to lose an arm or leg jut because you read an article? They have a place. They work as intended. They can cause more damage than many think. They need to be properly placed and used to be most effective and least damaging. They are rarely needed.
37 years as a Corpsman and Paramedic combined and I never placed one.
Get good training. Get a decent first aid kit. It doesn't take a lot or a lot of expense.
Oh yea, while we are at it, the quick clot stuff carries consequences as well. Just like the other, use it if you need it, but make sure you need it.
 
#26 ·
Thank you. This is one main reason why I started this thread.

Although training might not be needed, yes the average person without proper training can do damage. This can be a liability and you can find yourself in civil court.

Just like a firearm you are protected up to a certain point. It's common sense.

Someone had an idea above about joining the fire dept or other response teams and I think that's a great idea. Becoming a volunteer is great for you, them, and the community. Something to think about for sure.

In any event, the medical EDC tacticool world we now live in telling the gun community what items to where and how many med packs to carry is a bit ridiculous when majority of them never mention training. Many of them also don't mention that the use of a TQ is LAST resort if bleeding doesn't stop. It's not the first go to tool. There's a lot of misguided information which is why I love experienced medics or military to speak on this topic.

It's an important topic that not many discuss because they're too worried about buying the next aftermarket part for their Glock to make it this elite tool but yet their shooting doesn't change.

So just like range time and gun classes are neglected, so is medical knowledge.

It's like hey I own 8 Glocks all have trigger work night sights some have new barrels stippling and I still shoot the same, but you carry a what? What's a TQ for, haha why you carry those things? [emoji849]

Soooo you can spend all this money on safe guns and potentially be OK shooting someone but you don't have a single tool to help someone medically if need be which happens more often than SD shootings... think... car accidents.. how many occur in a day or a town near you. I bet most of us have seen them up close.




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#27 ·
I carry two CAT tourniquets in my EDC carry bag, along with a couple packages of Combat Gauze and Israeli bandages. The local PD issued CAT tourniquets to their officers and all EMS units carry several. One tourniquet will work for arm wounds but two are frequently needed for leg wounds.

Recent combat experience has shown that is certain circumstances, such as gun shot wounds, they are a critical part of lifesaving care. The American College of Surgeons Committee on Trauma has recently come out with a course for civilians / the lay public called "Stop the Bleed". The purpose of 'Stop the Bleed' is to prepare people to stop serious bleeding in an emergency — just as people perform CPR or use an AED to restart someone’s heart. Its a relatively short course - about 2 hours. Details are at http://www.bleedingcontrol.org/ . Click on "Find a Class" to find a class in your area.

For those with emergency medical training - First Responders, EMT's , Paramedics, Nurses, etc - Take a look at the NAEMT website for the Tactical Combat Casualty Care course - http://www.naemt.org/education/TCCC.aspx - This is the DoD Tactical Combat Casualty Care course offered through an accredited agency to civilian emergency medical responders.

Knowing the right way and right place to apply a proper tourniquet could save your life or someone close to you life. Training is essential but the "Stop the Bleed" course is a quick way to get that knowledge. Its not a difficult course to master

As for liability, check your State Good Samaritan laws - you will likely find that as long as you are not willfully and wantonly negligent, you can't be found liable for your well intentioned attempt at first aid. That doesn't mean you can't be sued, anyone can sue over anything and you'd have to pay for a lawyer to defend yourself.
 
#30 ·
I carry two CAT tourniquets in my EDC carry bag, along with a couple packages of Combat Gauze and Israeli bandages. The local PD issued CAT tourniquets to their officers and all EMS units carry several. One tourniquet will work for arm wounds but two are frequently needed for leg wounds.

Recent combat experience has shown that is certain circumstances, such as gun shot wounds, they are a critical part of lifesaving care. The American College of Surgeons Committee on Trauma has recently come out with a course for civilians / the lay public called "Stop the Bleed". The purpose of 'Stop the Bleed' is to prepare people to stop serious bleeding in an emergency — just as people perform CPR or use an AED to restart someone’s heart. Its a relatively short course - about 2 hours. Details are at http://www.bleedingcontrol.org/ . Click on "Find a Class" to find a class in your area.

For those with emergency medical training - First Responders, EMT's , Paramedics, Nurses, etc - Take a look at the NAEMT website for the Tactical Combat Casualty Care course - http://www.naemt.org/education/TCCC.aspx - This is the DoD Tactical Combat Casualty Care course offered through an accredited agency to civilian emergency medical responders. . .
All of this. I had a civilian first aid recent this year with my CPR and CLS training, and tourniquets were on the menu there also.

When you need one, there's nothing else like it.
 
#28 ·
I should have more first aid supplies on me

That said, I and everyone of my family members have an Israeli bandage on them
 
#29 ·
I EDC a small kit in a cargo pocket that has gauze, gloves, duct tape, decompression needle, and a tourniquet. The kit is for emergencies, or to hand someone trained on the scene. I have always been amazed when an accident occurs that a medical professional always seems to stop to help but doesn't have any supplies. When I was on the road a lot, just having more than a basic first aid kit to hand a professional has taught me it is worth carrying. Since I carry a gun I carry the basic tools to treat a GSW, the only one I would hesitate to use would be the needle, but at least it is there. I carry a more comprehensive kit in my range bag.
 
#31 ·
A couple of additional thoughts on the usefulness of being trained to use a tourniquet and having several available -

Think about the difference in damage done to a human body by a hollow point or soft point round versus FMJ / Ball ammo. You probably carry hollow points for your self defense ammo because of the expansion it does. So do the bad guys...

Keep in mind that knives can inflict significant trauma and cause massive bleeding to extremities, then there are the accidents with chain saws kicking back, car accidents involving small cars versus big trucks where people are trapped in their vehicles, or the common construction site accident where the user of a circular saw, sometimes with the blade guard tied back, runs the blade across their thigh. Tourniquets can be used to control bleeding in all these circumstances.

Finally, modern design tourniquets like the CAT tourniquet are designed to be used one handed if necessary.
 
#33 ·
What is the possibility if someone applies a tourniquet improperly. What sort of consequences are there?
Death is a very real possibility. Look up "compartment syndrome." My son is a medic with substantial ER experience. Currently he is the senior medic with a local fire department. So far this year he has seen two fatalities directly attributable to tourniquets improperly applied. One was a gunshot victim, the other was a car crash.
 
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