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Muzzle velocity question

2K views 22 replies 13 participants last post by  fredj338 
#1 ·
so I'm looking at Lucky Gunner Labs gel test website and noticed They got more velocity from Remington Golden Saber 124 +P than Speer Gold Dot 124 +P out of a S&W M&P 9C. GD should have been faster according to each company website.
 
#3 ·
Yes they use the same pistol for all of their 9 mm tests. As I stated in my original post, they use Smith and Wesson M&P 9C.
 
#6 ·
My bad. I misread you. I apologize. Maybe someone knows what barrel length Remington and Speer use for their in-house tests for their advertised muzzle velocity.

It just seems puzzling - kind of funny to me - that Gold Dot can start out at 1220 and the Golden Saber at 1180 according to their own websites, and out of whatever test barrel they use, and yet when tested out of the 3 1/2 inch barrel of the M&P 9C, the Golden Saber winds up being 20 ft./s faster for their five shot average
 
#7 ·
My bad. I misread you. I apologize. Maybe someone knows what barrel length Remington and Speer use for their in-house tests for their advertised muzzle velocity.

It just seems puzzling - kind of funny to me - that Gold Dot can start out at 1220 and the Golden Saber at 1180 according to their own websites, and out of whatever test barrel they use, and yet when tested out of the 3 1/2 inch barrel of the M&P 9C, the Golden Saber winds up being 20 ft./s faster for their five shot average
Right, it only will be similar if both Remington and Speer velocity were recorded from the same length barrels. Cowboy1964 came up with 4" for Speer, so you know they will be less than "published" out of a 3.5" barrel, maybe Remington used a 3" barrel to get their numbers.

Also you have different chambers. If Speer used a test barrel with a tight chamber and Remington used a gun with loose chamber, then a gun with a tighter chamber will favor Remington's results. And so it goes, a lot of variables.
 
#8 ·
Not to mention, even if the barrels are the same length, those velocities are not a pure number but a statistical calculation based on a sample size. Likely an average with highs/lows excluded.

Do they mention the tolerances on those velocities on the websites?

Everything has tolerance bands. Everything.
 
#13 · (Edited)
The issue is all guns are diff. No two will give identical results but by shear luck. As an extreme example, i have 5 diff 4" 357mags. The diff between all five is as much as 125fps with identical ammo tested the same day.
Rev have addl variables, but the idea, all guns will yield diff results. Test in your gun over a chrono, that is the only way to know.
 
#11 ·
Lucky Gunner purposefully uses short barreled handguns for their ballistic testing.
(9mm: Smith & Wesson M&P9c, 3.5-inch barrel)
Most major manufacturers use 4.0" for 9mm as a standard for advertised velocities.
Test barrels can be fast or slow.
Gunpowder used can be fast or slow burning.
Manufactures claims can seem optimistic or conservative.
I always trust independent chronograph testing in actual guns to manufacture claims.
 
#12 ·
Welcome to the real worl. Most manuf us longish test bbls, not actual guns to test ammo. They are going to post the best average vel, it sells ammo. Real world? Every gun will give diff vel. Even seemingly identical guns can vary 100fps +. Everything affects vel; bbl length, chamber specs, bbl specs, air temp, humidity, altitude, lots of variables.
 
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#14 ·
Speer did a test of 6" M19 revolvers. Six identical revolvers were used with various 357 loads. There was as much as 200 fps between the revolvers and it was not consistent. There was no "faster" gun than the others with all loads as you might expect.

So, as stated above, get a chronograph and see for yourself.
 
#17 ·
Most 9mm, 40 and 357 auto are tested from 4" barrels. The exception being loads designated as short barrel or the like. Most 45acp is chrono'd from a 5" tube.
 
#20 ·
Most big companies use a 4 inch test barrel as specified in the SAAMI specs at www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/publications/download/205.pdf . But while SAAMI offers specs and guidelines following them is voluntary.

A lot of difference between the velocity on the box and velocity out of a real gun is normal. The real gun having a higher velocity is unusual though.

As others have noted there can be quite a difference from gun to gun too. About a year ago I read a comparison of 3 10mm pistols in GunTests magazine. They had 2 1911 guns with 5 inch barrels and a Glock 20 with a 4.6. For ammo they used HP and FMJ from Sig for full power and FMJ and HP from Federal as an example of lower power ammo. With both brands the Glock was just a little slower with the FMJ. But with the HP ammo it delivered 250 fps less velocity with the Sig ammo and 150 fps less with the Federal than the 1911. The guys testing the gun even tried a putting a 6 inch barrel in the Glock but velocity only went up 30 fps. A very small difference in how a gun is chambered or rifled can make a surprisingly big difference in velocity.
I have noticed similar results when working up a few SD practice loads, most recently in 380 Auto. My stock Glock G42 barrel might produce as much as 60fps less velocity for a given load versus an Alpha Wolf barrel in the same gun. The AW is stock length, so the only difference is chamber and barrel bore dimension, the AW being tighter in both.

In the same work, I found a Speer Gold Dot, seated to the same depth, ran as much as 40fps faster than a harder Precision Delta FMJ/FP.

A lot of things affect chamber pressure and bullet velocity.
 
#21 ·
In the same work, I found a Speer Gold Dot, seated to the same depth, ran as much as 40fps faster than a harder Precision Delta FMJ/FP.

A lot of things affect chamber pressure and bullet velocity.
Softer core & thinner "jacket".
 
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#23 ·
I like the quotes. ;)
Yeah the GDHP is a hybrid. Not really a conventional plated bullet nor true jacket, a tweener for sure.
 
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