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Walking upon a sexual assault in progress with my ccw

22K views 470 replies 124 participants last post by  Nunya Business 
#1 ·
Hey everyone I'm not new to firearms but am new to ccw, I live near one of those most dangerous cities in the world.. Chicago. And with all the crime that goes on here I am wondering what should I do if I walked up on an sexual assault of either a man or woman, can I pull my weapon? Or just try to restrain them? And if I mm able to pull it can I shoot if they won't follow my orders? Of course it would be point blank range (3ft) to make sure the victim is not harmed. I have seen lots of great info on defending yourself and others in danger but not about sexual assault cases. Please give some info
 
#6 ·
Seriously. In the Soviet Socializt Peoplez Republizk of Chicago, get on your cell phone to the local copstabulary and be a good witness.

The use of firearms, carrying CCW, and or self defense of yourself or persons unknown can land you in the hoosegow, no matter what the miscreant was doing.

Gray_Rider'
Old Secessh
 
#36 ·
Seriously. In the Soviet Socializt Peoplez Republizk of Chicago, get on your cell phone to the local copstabulary and be a good witness.
If you walk up on this "assault" in progress, you're really sticking it out by intervening with a weapon. Third party cases should really, really get your spidey senses going. Is this some guy and chick playing rough? Some john and a hooker who paid extra to play rough? An undercover cop and a hooker/tweaker/dealer? An abusive hubby/boyfriend? Who's going to be on your side when she elects not to press charges? If it's your wife/girlfriend/daughter, it's waaay different than some stranger's tryst that you're intervening in.

Living in Chicago, I would guess there's probably more than one hoplophobic prosecutor who'd love to make an example out of a CCW guy. Do you feel lucky?

In Tennessee, use of deadly force is "justified" to prevent serious injury or death. Does your "assault" rise to that level? Are you willing to bet you and your family's future on it?
 
#7 ·
There are too many variables to deal with here. Are you witnessing a sexual assault or a woman with a '50 Shades of Gray' fetish?

Are you willing to risk you freedom by wrongly intervening? To paraphrase the blog Combat Weaponcraft: 'Getting a CCW and playing Captain America' is not a good idea.

Calling 911 should be your first notion.
 
#8 ·
Laws governing the use of deadly force vary from state to state. Before anyone consciously decides to CC, he/she should read all of them and have a solid notion about exactly what kind of situations would prompt the production of a weapon (which in itself, can be a crime, absent shots actually being fired). CC does not make you a LEO. -That kind of thinking will result in problems for you! -And it all usually comes down to what can be proved by way of showing that your fear of "grievous" harm was reasonable. Think about what that means. -A lot!
 
#9 ·
If a person is crying , asking for help then she is probably a victim. I would draw without hesitation. I wouldn't let fear of liberals overrun LIBERTY and helping someone. I said that before and got flamed but it's still true. Luckily I live in a free state but I will always risk my life or freedom to help someone. I've done it before and would again
 
#12 ·
Thanks everyone for your responses and knowledge like I said I am new to this ccw and was told by my instructor ( a Chicago police officer on the south side) that any forcible felony will be justified, but wanted to know more, I didn't join this site cause I like glocks I actually dislike them, but because I seen good responses to other questions, and exactly judge of judges, I have the same mind set idc about prison if I know what I did was right, I would gladly help anyone in need! No need for the rude or making me seem dumb comments but I expected those, if I didn't have a wife and child and am only 25 yo, I would sacrifice everything for good, if I seen someone touch a animal I might lose it, because Animals are innocent creatures, humans are too smart for there own good and make me sick, we destroyed this world and will continue to do so until there is nothing left, atleast I can respect gun owner 1 just because we both stand for the second amendment but besides that your nothing
 
#13 ·
I must ask, what would you do in such a situation if you were not armed? In the majority of cases, your actions shouldn’t change much between the two (being armed vs being unarmed). Of course, that is just my opinion, others may differ.

There are exceptions to the rule, but those exceptions should be address based on the specifics at the time. We are all individuals, with individual opinions and different levels of willingness to take certain risks.

Personally, I decided to obtain a license to carry when I realized that no one (other than myself) was responsible for the safety and security of my family, and my own, of course. Other than that and with very few other exceptions, I go about my daily life as if I was not armed. Should I witness a crime I would most likely do the same thing as if I was not armed. To me that means call the police, be a witness and testify to what I witnessed.

Rarely does one know the background story and how things developed to the point we are witnessing. Could there ever be a situation where I would risk my life and/or freedom for another? It is not impossible, but highly unlikely, unless I am certain beyond reasonable doubt that what I’m witnessing involves a crime to an innocent and defenseless person that can ultimately cost them their life.

Should you take the life of another, you will be the one to live with that knowledge for the remainder of your days. It would be disastrous to learn later your actions were wrong. Take time to reflect on that.

What we don’t know about a situation could yield another that is far different than what we “believe” we are witnessing.
 
#18 ·
And to
I must ask, what would you do in such a situation if you were not armed? In the majority of cases, your actions shouldn’t change much between the two (being armed vs being unarmed). Of course, that is just my opinion, others may differ.

There are exceptions to the rule, but those exceptions should be address based on the specifics at the time. We are all individuals, with individual opinions and different levels of willingness to take certain risks.

Personally, I decided to obtain a license to carry when I realized that no one (other than myself) was responsible for the safety and security of my family, and my own, of course. Other than that and with very few other exceptions, I go about my daily life as if I was not armed. Should I witness a crime I would most likely do the same thing as if I was not armed. To me that means call the police, be a witness and testify to what I witnessed.

Rarely does one know the background story and how things developed to the point we are witnessing. Could there ever be a situation where I would risk my life and/or freedom for another? It is not impossible, but highly unlikely, unless I am certain beyond reasonable doubt that what I’m witnessing involves a crime to an innocent and defenseless person that can ultimately cost them their life.

Should you take the life of another, you will be the one to live with that knowledge for the remainder of your days. It would be disastrous to learn later your actions were wrong. Take time to reflect on that.

What we don’t know about a situation could yield another that is far different than what we “believe” we are witnessing.
and to reply to your comment I would treat my hands as deadly weapons and stomp his head into the concrete, I'm sorry if I offend anyone but people that are willing to commit such a crime do derserve to be kept alive and fed for 5-8years in prison they should be dealt with in the appropriate manner
 
#14 ·
Hey everyone I'm not new to firearms but am new to ccw, I live near one of those most dangerous cities in the world.. Chicago.
Chicago is a very dangerous place. There are a lot of people in the city who have firearms, many of those folks shouldn't be armed because they are either felons or they lack the common-sense needed to carry.
I am wondering what should I do if I walked up on an sexual assault of either a man or woman, can I pull my weapon? Or just try to restrain them? And if I mm able to pull it can I shoot if they won't follow my orders?
For an accurate answer to this question, you should call (312) 603-1880. Ask to speak with Kim Fox, she can answer that question.
Of course it would be point blank range (3ft) to make sure the victim is not harmed.
You must be a really good shot.
I have seen lots of great info on defending yourself and others in danger but not about sexual assault cases. Please give some info
It's a dangerous world out there. You may want to stay indoors more.
 
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#16 ·
Yes yo
Chicago is a very dangerous place. There are a lot of people in the city who have firearms, many of those folks shouldn't be armed because they are either felons or they lack the common-sense needed to carry.
For an accurate answer to this question, you should call (312) 603-1880. Ask to speak with Kim Fox, she can answer that question.
You must be a really good shot.
It's a dangerous world out there. You may want to stay indoors more.
yes you are right about every comment and yes I trust my shot and thanks for the number I will call and ask
 
#19 ·
Lol y
lol yea your right it had to work for someone that was being assaulted, maybe a cop was in the right place at the right time but that won't always be the case, have you heard about Brock turner? Went to Stanford raped a unconscious girl and his parents are saying he shouldn't be charged for his 20 min of fame! Two students stopped the rape, if it was me Brock turner wouldn't be able to walk anymore
 
#20 ·
Avoid physical interaction at all costs when carrying.
You lose control of that weapon and you lose the battle, and you likely lose your life.

If the situation is an obvious assault, provide some distance and draw but aim at ground. Demand VERY loudly that it stop. If the skell makes ANY move toward you, level your gun and demand VERY loudly that they stop.
If they continue, you can defend yourself.

Be very aware of the laws in your state. You MIGHT be able to shoot to stop a felony. You MIGHT have to consider yourself in grave danger before shooting (i.e. if you're 6' 3" and the skell is 5'2" with pants around the ankles, your defense argument will not be terribly strong).

The question is: why is it this particular situation that comes to your mind, as opposed to any heinous crime being committed against a person?
A prosecuting attorney might consider such a question to be part of formulating a defensible shooting.
 
#22 ·
great question but it's because of the fear of my wife and daughter, and great answers that's how I would respond but I am 5'8" 140 pounds not a big guy and so I would most likely have to act out of self defense and the great bodily harm of other s and I can defend myself without a weapon but why not use the law in my favor against sick criminals
 
#32 ·
That could very easily get you convicted of murder. The use of force, showing, brandishing, drawing, pointing, firing, must ALWAYS be equal to the threat. If you shoot someone when simply showing your gun would have been enough.... then you're in for a world of trouble. (based on location, of course)
 
#24 ·
State laws vary. You need to seriously get VERY familiar with yours. Illinois is not the most friendly state to that. Here in TX, sexual assault or aggravated sexual assault is a "deadly force is authorized" felony, as is several others like aggravated assault, aggravated kidnapping... and a few others.
 
#25 ·
You simply say 'get off of her'. If he runs...you tell that to the police. If he comes at you..draw and proceed as needed. You can't go around waving a gun to save the day. You're not going to hold him at gunpoint. If he starts to run, it's not like you can shoot him.

Interesting but unrelated case that comes to mind...I know of one instance when two college students came across this in a park at night. They beat the guy to a pulp, the girl ran and the news reported that a guy was jumped by two unknown assailants in the park. Nobody ever came forward, including the girl.
 
#28 · (Edited)
To the OP:

FWIW, when I joined GT it was with some deliberation that I chose my screen name. It wasn't to promote Mas Ayoob's programming (although I'm happy to do so), so much as it is to remind myself of the innumerable responsibilities of CC. I believe that those of us who choose to CC have an obligation to always learn and to always train.

As stated elsewhere on GT, in 43 years of gun ownership, the MAG40 class I attended were the 40 most valuable hours. The machismo B.S. very quickly gets replaced with a firm understanding of the law, the risks, the "known knowns" and the "known unknowns" of CC in general and the s**tshow that is a self-defense shooting. No one wants to be caught up in one unless it's absolutely necessary.

The class isn't cheap, and being a young man with a young family I'm sure spare funds are a challenge to come by, but I'd encourage you to take the MAG40 class at your first opportunity. You'll spend 26 hours in the classroom and 14 hours on the range. Not only will you come away with a whole lot of invaluable knowledge that can mean the difference between liberty and prison as well as life and death, but you'll also come away a much better shooter.

Stay safe. Best to all.
 
#29 ·
... I live near one of those most dangerous cities in the world.. Chicago. ... . ...
Yes, Chicago is dangerous. Atlanta, Baltimore, Cincinnati, Detroit, Kansas City, Memphis, Milwaukee, New Orleans, Newark, Oakland, Pittsburgh, and St. Louis all have higher murder rates than does Chicago. There are also some smaller cities that have higher murder rates than Chicago, for instance Opa Locka, Trenton, and Wilmington. If part of your planned defense strategy in a criminal trial is that you live in one of the most dangerous cities, do not be shocked that does not work especially well.


... .. ... And if I mm able to pull it can I shoot if they won't follow my orders? ...
Is there a statute that obligates someone to follow your order, and if so, what is the punishment if the person is convicted of not following your order?

Ps: is it wrong that I would love to be able to stop one with my weapon and put the sick bastard out of his misery?
And to

and to reply to your comment I would treat my hands as deadly weapons and stomp his head into the concrete, I'm sorry if I offend anyone but people that are willing to commit such a crime do derserve to be kept alive and fed for 5-8years in prison they should be dealt with in the appropriate manner
Should you be involved in a shooting, especially if it is a questionable shooting, do not be shocked that the investigators look into your social media history and use posts such as these to show that you have previously thought about shooting someone as being a positive and desirable act.

You should consider speaking with an attorney, and, if nothing else, ask him how much he would charge to defend you in a shooting case if it does not go to trial and how much if it were to go to trial. But it may be worth it to also ask him whether or not he would recommend shooting in a situation such as this.
 
#30 ·
Yes, Chicago is dangerous. Atlanta, Baltimore, Cincinnati, Detroit, Kansas City, Memphis, Milwaukee, New Orleans, Newark, Oakland, Pittsburgh, and St. Louis all have higher murder rates than does Chicago. There are also some smaller cities that have higher murder rates than Chicago, for instance Opa Locka, Trenton, and Wilmington. If part of your planned defense strategy in a criminal trial is that you live in one of the most dangerous cities, do not be shocked that does not work especially well.



Is there a statute that obligates someone to follow your order, and if so, what is the punishment if the person is convicted of not following your order?



Should you be involved in a shooting, especially if it is a questionable shooting, do not be shocked that the investigators look into your social media history and use posts such as these to show that you have previously thought about shooting someone as being a positive and desirable act.

You should consider speaking with an attorney, and, if nothing else, ask him how much he would charge to defend you in a shooting case if it does not go to trial and how much if it were to go to trial. But it may be worth it to also ask him whether or not he would recommend shooting in a situation such as this.
I do agree with many of your points but I can only speak and act for myself. I also am the one who has to live with my actions or inaction. I have no wife or children because I can't have children. I shoot blanks. But I have to live with myself. If I see something like this and don't act I could not live with it because it would be against my personal moral compass. That compass to help anyone I can from a stranded motorist to the OP scenario is more valuable to me than any worldly possession. I understand the risks , really I do. I just rather live in prison or for doing what I feel is right than live free feeling what I did was wrong. That is not for everyone but it is right for me.
 
#39 · (Edited)
Keep in mind that depending in the neighborhood in Chicago that while you believe you are the "good guy" there could easily be half a dozen witnesses saying you were not, especially when gangs are involved which is a LOT in Chicago. Myself I avoid anyplace like the plague that I believe could be a seedy area.

In many areas what you think is an act of violence could be a setup to distract and rob/assault you.
 
#303 ·
I didn't read through the entire thread, it's just too long. But you have brought up a very good point regarding witnesses.

In 1995, I was physically assaulted at work by a very disturbed man. He started the altercation and finished it. He is 6'5", I know this because he was very proud of his height and bragged about it often. I am 5'5". A full foot shorter than he is. I've said before, it wasn't a fight, it was a massacre. I had no chance against him. This crime was witnessed by 15 people in the office. When it came time to give their statements, 5 witnesses stated that it was mutual combat. And that it went back and forth. The other 10 folks said it was completely one-sided and was started by the other man.

Two very different accounts of the same incident.
 
#40 ·
Don't go looking for an excuse to use your gun . You are not a cop.
The chances of you coming across a sexual assault in progress are very small.

If you use your gun and even if you are one hundred percent in the right, it could cost you jail time, and tens of thousands of dollars in attorney fees. You could be sued by the family or perpetrator if he survives, and loose.

Is this what you want?
 
#41 ·
I witnessed a sexual assault in progress yesterday and drew my gun and told them to stop. Neighbors called 911 on me! The police came but thankfully didn't arrest me. It was a big misunderstanding. The cop said I can't draw my gun for two dogs f'king. [emoji3]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#61 ·
If you come upon a sexual assault simply pull down your pants and try to rape the rapist...that really ****s with their head.
I would expect nothing less from someone named Dr. ********. Can you give a medical diagnosis - IF I were t do that, would that make me gay?




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
#45 ·
You can't speak to a stranger's subjective state of mind, only your own. Shout at them, scream at them, call 911. Be a good witness. Drawing a gun will most likely get you put in prison.
 
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