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380ACP Sheet Metal Testing Lehigh Defense vs Federal Hydra-Shok

1K views 4 replies 3 participants last post by  fastbolt 
#1 · (Edited)
I know that I posted this over at the General Glocking Forum.

After I produced the video, and after I re-read the original FBI testing from the late 80's in regards to the actual sheet metal specification, I re-designed my sheet metal "fixture" to accommodate (2) separate sheets of sheet metal separated by 3" which approximates a car door at its thinnest section minus the internal window hardware.

I plan on doing the Lehigh Defense 90gr. Xtreme Defense vs. Federal 124gr HST as soon as my slide on my 26 gets back from milling [hoping for the week of June 26, 2017].

Next week I am thinking about breaking out the 45ACP!

If you will, please watch the temporary cavity in the FBI 10% Ballistic gel produced by the Lehigh vs. Federal after both bullets "punched" through the sheet metal.

Finally, I hope that I have plateaued in regards to the learning curve, so to speak, on learning the nuances of this Edgertronic High Speed video camera [I just got it a few days ago]. I shot the video using 1,200 frames per second, 200 ISO, 1,201 shutter speed, 1,200 x 300. Over-clocked at the 'B' setting which will cause artifacts/ghosting on the darker objects [won't do that again].

Next week's video I will tweak the parameters on the camera to hopefully show the results better! I will drop to 1,000 frames per second and gain a higher resolution on the video playback.

 
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#2 ·
A cursory search on YouTube and Google returns very little results on any of the major bullet/ammunition manufacturers in regards to actually testing/shooting through sheet metal which is one of the FBI specifications for an automobile door.

Honestly, I think that it does a great injustice to the general public that this very fact is for the most part ignored. Denim, drywall, and wood are all very realistic barriers to overcome when it involves self defensive ammunition. However, automobile car doors are also a very REAL barrier that I think should be tested more extensively.

For the ammunition manufacturers who "say" their bullet is the best self-defensive bullet, and NOT PROVE their bullet's effectiveness and/or lack thereof in sheet metal is misleading in my opinion.

A lot of information and mis-information exists, a lot of opinions are formed from what was read and/or seen. I, by my very nature , am the consummate DOUBTER. I doubt until I prove to myself the validity or invalidity of others' results.
 
#3 · (Edited)
A cursory search on YouTube and Google returns very little results on any of the major bullet/ammunition manufacturers in regards to actually testing/shooting through sheet metal which is one of the FBI specifications for an automobile door.

Honestly, I think that it does a great injustice to the general public that this very fact is for the most part ignored. Denim, drywall, and wood are all very realistic barriers to overcome when it involves self defensive ammunition. However, automobile car doors are also a very REAL barrier that I think should be tested more extensively.

For the ammunition manufacturers who "say" their bullet is the best self-defensive bullet, and NOT PROVE their bullet's effectiveness and/or lack thereof in sheet metal is misleading in my opinion.

A lot of information and mis-information exists, a lot of opinions are formed from what was read and/or seen. I, by my very nature , am the consummate DOUBTER. I doubt until I prove to myself the validity or invalidity of others' results.
Not really sure why but there seems to be a lot of concern with testing this bullet design in the .380, another inch or two of penetration isn't going to make the .380 a killing machine. Because the Lehigh bullet functions mainly by the hydrostatic wounding caused by its unique design it would be most effective with both a larger caliber and/or faster bullet. The .40, 10mm and 357 Sig calibers utilize this bullet to its full SD potential as well as defeating soft body armor and having superior tactical penetration. This bullet shines at the upper end of the caliber scale not the lower end and Underwood Ammo maximizes the performance of this XD and the XP Lehigh bullets. Underwood Ammo has a 65 gr XD in 357 Sig that has a velocity of 2100 fps and 640 ft/lbs of energy......this I would like to see tested and the 10mm XD offered with a velocity of 2000 fps!
 
#5 ·
Everyone needs a hobby. ;)

On the other hand, I remember when the original FBI ammunition testing was being released to LE. I got an early copy in my firearms instructor class in '90 because it was one of the classes where the FBI participated by providing a couple instructors (classroom & range), and the class certificates included a signature from someone at the FBI. They included some interesting supplements in the materials received during the class. (More interesting than the ammunition testing.)

Anyway, while the FBI decided some of the more common building/structure and automotive materials were important for their testing of duty ammunition, it's not like most LE (let alone private citizens) are commonly finding themselves involved in shooting incidents where they're having to "defeat" all of those intermediate barriers.

One of my friends (an active LE firearms trainer) recently returned from some training where he got an opportunity to see what happens when common LE calibers and ammunition are used against modern cars. It apparently surprised him when he saw that many of the common handgun calibers did "better" than he expected when it came to shooting & perforating both windshields and doors. He seemed especially surprised that the standard 1oz 12 GA shotgun slug did very well against doors. He said in one of the test shots the slug perforated both front doors in a car, side to side.

I told him welcome to the 80's & 90's. :)

We had the opportunity to shoot up a then-recent model sedan in my ancient '90 firearms class, too. The main thing all the students came away with was that it was unpredictable the degree to which any of the revolver or pistol (or 9mm machine pistol) bullets were going to perforate sheet metal and internal mechanisms of the doors. Some did better than expected by some of the students, and some didn't do as well as expected when they encountered "stuff" inside the doors.

Now, angle the doors (or angle of presentation of differently made glass surfaces) and you create a thicker "medium" through which bullets/slugs have to pass. It also introduces more potential for deflection.

Personally, while I find it sometimes interesting to see the degree to which a "minimally" low powered defensive handgun load might be able to perforate auto glass and still have enough power to penetrate several inches into properly calibrated 10% gel, it's not something I primarily or exclusively use when selecting carry loads. It didn't cause me to lose sleep when I was carrying issued revolvers or pistols in my LE career, either, even though much of my career involved working in and around motor vehicles.

You seem to have fun doing these videos, though, and that's something to put in the "plus" column. ;)
 
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