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10, 2 & 4 but NOT about Dr Pepper

2K views 33 replies 13 participants last post by  SCmasterblaster 
#1 · (Edited)
Dr. Pepper, the oldest soft drink in America; was created in 1885 by a physician in Waco, Texas. Somewhere between 1920 and 1930, an advertising type person came up with the slogan most of us old timers will remember as "10, 2, & 4". Used well into the fifties, it became the advertisement enticing us to drink lots of the friendly Pepper Upper at 10 A.M., 2P.M. and 4 P.M..
Perhaps that advertising type person was also a hand gun enthusiast trying to decide where to carry their new Browning M1911; 10 o'clock, 2 o'clock, or 4 O'clock? However that may have been, I am now in a quandary of my own making.
Cross draw at 10 o'clock seemed right for all situations, but two very knowledgeable and long experienced LEO's are pushing me towards 4 O'clock. And I like to hear the voice of experience - don't always listen - but do try to hear it. Often takes a while for good advice to get through to my school of hard knocks cranium. Hence my quest for confirmation from fellow Glocksters.
With regard to OWB concealed EDC, strong right side, my thoughts have been:
Cross Draw - comfortable with quick, easy access while sitting, standing, walking, running, and not pointed at any body parts.
Disadvantages - harder to defend an attack from the weak side. Extra movement to access when sitting at a desk. Slightly longer path to weapon.
Appendix Carry - comfortable with quick, easy access while standing, walking, running. Shortest path to weapon.
Disadvantages - harder to defend an attack from the strong side. Extra movement to access while sitting. Pointed at right groin area.
Hip Carry - comfortable with quick, easy access while standing, walking, running. Not pointed at any body parts. Straight up and out access to target.
Disadvantages - harder to defend an attack from the strong side. Extra movement to access when sitting in a vehicle. Harder to prevent weapon access from behind the back.

What position do you like and why?
I look forward to any and all comments from GT nation.
 
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#3 ·
I look forward to any and all comments from GT nation.
I use primarily Alien Gear OWB holsters, and skip a belt loop with my belt so that I can slide the holster back to 4:00 when walking, and forward to 2:00 when in the car. The belt and holster remain stable throughout. For me this is the best of both worlds.
 
#25 ·
Still 10 & 4 for me. 15 degree cant makes 10 & 2 awkward, especially at 2 o'clock.
The title brought me in...
The only time I can stand cross draw is when driving long distances. Otherwise I find it too slow and awkward. I prefer 4 o'clock, sometimes 3 depending on the gun and what I'm doing and wearing. My 43 usually sits very nicely at 4, IWB or OWB.
Trying my new Tagua black belt slide at 4, the FBI cant makes it almost impossible at 10 o'clock and 2 o'clock points squarely at my right hip joint. Not sure I can get comfortable with that.
It is technique. I shoot a lot of competition, so drawing strong side is as natural as breathing. Cross draw would never be faster, especially if you are heavy set. Only way to get comfy is put the rig on & work with it dry fire.
Also got a Tagua brown belt slide with a magazine pouch for my Shield. Like it at 10 & 4. No good at 2. Would try 3, Fred, but I am trying to stay well concealed.
Still breaking both Tagua's in, leather pretty stiff.
LOL - may have to get another Shield just to break-in new holsters.
 
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#5 ·
By far, most are saying/using 4 o'clock for concealed EDC. I am finding the draw a bit awkward, even standing, when I compare it to cross-draw. Perhaps my technique is poor, so I still want to know WHY do most prefer strong side hip over cross-draw?
 
#6 ·
By far, most are saying/using 4 o'clock for concealed EDC. I am finding the draw a bit awkward, even standing, when I compare it to cross-draw. Perhaps my technique is poor, so I still want to know WHY do most prefer strong side hip over cross-draw?
I find cross draw more comfortable, especially in the car, but I can draw to a shooting position quicker and print less with 3 o'clock strong side hip. I suspect that's why most prefer strong side hip.
 
#8 ·
Cross draw can leave you open to having someone grab your gun with it perfectly aligned to be used against you. There are a few other concerns, like length of draw, but that's the deal-breaker for me. I also find that I knock my hand into it all the time, and it obstructs my pocket too much. Ultimately, however, it's a subjective thing. There is a compromise with every position. Just gotta decide what works best for you.
 
#14 · (Edited)
I am a 3:30-4:00 guy. AIWB just violates all the basic rules of firearm safety for me & it is only slightly faster than strong side carry from concealment. Strong side offers max weapon retention from any attack point, IMO. Merely turning your body guns side away is 50% of the battle to keep it. Only down side to strong side carry is long term sitting & I am never sweeping a body part drawing from any position like AIWB.
Crossdraw, only as a long term seated holster carry, like driving any distance, or a shoulder rig. The car rig can be a clip on verison you leave in the car when you transfer back to strong side.
 
#30 · (Edited)
3:30 - 4;00 here too, for the same reasons. I carry a Subcompact Glock most of the time, and the short two finger grip is comfortable when sitting as well as standing when carried in this position. I can still draw fairly quickly when seated with a seatbelt on. Not as easy to do with a longer grip pistol. Moving up to the compact size makes a signifigant difference here to me. YMMV.

Yes, but I CCW that way too. I usually shoot OWB in comps, but carry IWB. I will shoot my IWB rig 2-3x a year, just to refresh my slightly diff raw stroke as I CCW with an untucked polo. At 7yds, I can break 1.5sec from the IWB rig, pretty close to 1sec with OWB & vest or jacket. Could I be faster AIWB, probably but then I hate point the muzzle at important parts of my body.
I think consistant 1.5 or so is pretty darn good from concealment. 8" plate at 7yds. That's where I'm at from IWB. I get the occasional good one off at a second or a hair over, but can't do it consistantly. Doubt I ever will, but it's good to have goals. Aging eyes picking up the front sight seems to be the limiting factor.
 
#15 ·
By far, most are saying/using 4 o'clock for concealed EDC. I am finding the draw a bit awkward, even standing, when I compare it to cross-draw. Perhaps my technique is poor, so I still want to know WHY do most prefer strong side hip over cross-draw?
It is technique. I shoot a lot of competition, so drawing strong side is as natural as breathing. Cross draw would never be faster, especially if you are heavy set. Only way to get comfy is put the rig on & work with it dry fire.
 
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#16 ·
Strong side hip.

Dr. Pepper, the oldest soft drink in America; was created in 1885 by a physician in Waco, Texas. .......
"...Beginning in 1806, Yale University chemistry professor Benjamin Silliman sold soda waters in New Haven, Connecticut. He used a Nooth apparatus to produce his waters. Businessmen in Philadelphia and New York City also began selling soda water in the early 19th century. In the 1830s, ..."
 
#19 ·
"...Beginning in 1806, Yale University chemistry professor Benjamin Silliman sold soda waters in New Haven, Connecticut. He used a Nooth apparatus to produce his waters. Businessmen in Philadelphia and New York City also began selling soda water in the early 19th century. In the 1830s, ..."
EXCEPT, early soda waters are not true soft drinks as they contained a much larger dose of sodium salts for carbonation than do today's soft drinks. Modern soft drinks contain less sodium and are not technically soda's although the soda moniker is still used by many partakers.
 
#18 · (Edited)
It is technique. I shoot a lot of competition, so drawing strong side is as natural as breathing. Cross draw would never be faster, especially if you are heavy set. Only way to get comfy is put the rig on & work with it dry fire.
For competition, I assume you are at strong-side hip. From concealment, I practice 10 OWB and IWB plus 4 OWB and IWB. It seems easier to rip and draw, for me, from OA. Still too slow, but I am below 1.5 seconds to first shot on target, 8 inch at 7 yards. With more practice, I may change my mind to 4 o'clock.
 
#20 ·
Yes, but I CCW that way too. I usually shoot OWB in comps, but carry IWB. I will shoot my IWB rig 2-3x a year, just to refresh my slightly diff raw stroke as I CCW with an untucked polo. At 7yds, I can break 1.5sec from the IWB rig, pretty close to 1sec with OWB & vest or jacket. Could I be faster AIWB, probably but then I hate point the muzzle at important parts of my body.
 
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#26 ·
I am mainly a pocket carry guy now (like 70-80%) and AIWB the rest of the time. Last winter I screwed up my Rotator Cuff in my strong side shoulder, while it is getting better every week, 4-5 O'Clock carry is not happening, maybe ever again. I still struggle to quickly tuck my shirt in on that side.
 
#28 ·
Dr.Pepper is preferred when Mt Dew is not available. As for carry position for a G30, it's 10 oclock crossdraw everyday, IWB. I can draw standing, sitting, backed against a wall, corner, and probably flat on my back (don't have many opportunities to practice that last one). I've read the responses/comments on crossdraw failings and quite frankly I don't see it. Admittedly it's been awhile since I've drawn and fired from crossdraw (range restrictions) but the last time I did I was just a tiny bit slower than strong side. I'll go with versatility.
 
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