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Thumbs forward

7K views 69 replies 46 participants last post by  The Fist Of Goodness 
#1 ·
I've been shooting for more years than I care to remember or talk about. How ever in the last few years I've heard and read this term "Thumbs Forward" I'm not sure why but willing to learn. So why??? Also about the same time I started hearing and reading complaints about premature slide lock, failure to return to battery, and fail to feed because someone's thumb pushed up on the slide release or applied a little drag to the slide. I've never heard of "Thumbs Forward" on wrenches, hammers, ball bats. Someone please explain to me why you would use such a halfway grip on something you intend to use to save your butt. This is a serious question but I will probably still catch grief so Let The Games Begin.
 
#4 ·
I don't use thumbs forward, but I understand why others do.

1. You are trying to apply even pressure on both sides of the gun, trying to get as much surface area as possible from your hands onto the gun.

2. You are trying to point with your thumb, to help with the aiming process.

3. You are trying to rotate your wrist forward into a locked position to reduce the recoil.

Now the negatives, and the reasons I don't do it.
1. Thumbs forward can be dangerous with a revolver (because of hot cylinder gap gas), and so if you switch back and forth between revolvers and semi-autos, the thumbs forward can be a bad habit.

2. Thumbs forward weakens a one-handed grip, and I prefer that my firing hand grab the grip the same way whether I'm going to use one or two hands.

3. Pointing with my thumb is not something I naturally do, and I do not like that much rotation forward with my wrist.

4. The thumb forward can cause a jam, can slow the slide, can hit slide release, etc.

5. I shoot just fine, to my own satisfaction, with thumbs somewhat down :)
 
#5 ·
I use thumbs forward for higher and more natural grip. I used to shoot by scrunching my thumbs down together when I first started shooting, but now it's uncomfortable and awkward after shooting thumbs forward for so long.

When I shoot a semi-auto one handed I curl my thumb without even thinking about it. Never even thought about putting my thumb forward one handed since you need that extra support.

When shooting a revolver I use the grip below without even thinking about it.



I know it might seem impossible or even dangerous to some, but shooting different ways with different guns over the years makes it easy for me to transition from a revolver to a semi-auto, single action to DA action or DA/SA. I can carry and switch to any type of gun I own and grip it how I like without even thinking about it. It's second nature at this point.
 
#9 ·
As said above, it gives a better high hand grip. It didn't feel natural to me at first but my groups and scores improved dramatically and now it is natural feeling to me. Like everything with shooting, it takes practice.
 
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#11 ·
I competed in the 80's and used Weaver. When I stared competing again two years ago, I switched to "thumbs forward". For me, it really does help me get a higher grip. Also, squaring off to the target became more intuitive than Weaver was. Note: It DID take me quite a lot of time in practice and dry fire to make the change.

Lastly, I eventually had to modify the grip. Rotating the support hand down and locking my left elbow gave me TREMENDOUS tennis elbow. I tend to shoot 400+ rounds a week plus dry fire. Now, I don't lock my support hand down so much and I keep my elbows bent.

As already mentioned in this thread, use what works for you. Give new techniques ample time to settle int though.
 
#12 ·
On striker fired guns with the humps on the back of the grip, rotating the trigger hand thumb forward and down flexes the thumb meat and locks the hump into the meat for a nice purchase. This is why glocks have thumb divots it seems really low. When your off-hand blocks the thumb divot, the thumb meat stays low, you just rest your thumb on the off-hand (you need to find the right spot for your personal ergos).
For the off-hand thumb, the point of pointing it forward (at least why I do it) is to counter my trigger finger. making the thumb rigid with the frame helps counter my trigger jerks when I shoot fast. I can see why one wouldn't need it with excellent trigger discipline. It also helps with indexing and pointing for quick target acquisition. Within 5 yards, I don't pull the sights up to my vision. My left thumb helps point the muzzle without the sights.
 
#13 ·
I think there has been too much emphasis in recent years on how to shoot best under ideal circumstances at the neglect of reliability and safety. We are mostly trained to shoot like Delta Team members, not people that have just been knocked down and have defensive hand wounds. If your habitual grip raised your scores while increasing the likelihood of a slide lock failure or poor single hand accuracy, I don't think it is a good bargain.

You can learn to shoot just as well with your thumbs tucked away from the slide and controls you don't want to bump.
 
#18 ·
Competition shooting is a wonderful thing. Lots of fun wheather informal or national match. BP is up adrenaline is pumping great feelkng, front sight comes up and yousqueeze the trigger and bang perfe t shot.
Now it's 10 pm you and your wife just leftt the movie at the mall walking to the car. 2 guys come from behi d a mini van 1 comes at you1 at your wife.
You push with away and go for your gun but you cant shoot because you can't aee your wife. Your gun is now a club, thumbs forward or death grip?
Wife accounted for, you re going to shoot thumbs forward or death grip. You see a flash , BG goes down other runs. Where were your sights what about recoil where waa the blast. Ask any combat vet what they saw, heard or felt when they were fighting for their life.
I read the reasons for thumbs forward just can't buy it with the potential for failure because when s happens you go to basics.
 
#14 ·
Introduced to the "thumbs forward" deal about a month ago.
I feel like I have for control, and shooting has improved.
Took a little while to get used to, not because it felt weird or anything, just had to remember and not get lazy.
Works great with my Shield 45, and CZ P-07, but not my Sig SP2022.
I found myself riding the long slide release, and not locking back on the last round.
Not a big deal, as the Sig doesn't get out very much, and might be on the chopping block anyway.
I like it, but YMMV.
 
#15 ·
Being old, I learned an old grip and of course started shooting with a revolver. Tried Weaver, it just never worked for me. I switched to thumb forward several years ago and I think it is a better grip.
 
#19 ·
I don't use that thumbs forward grip anymore, and when I checked with two respected competitors/instructors they were not enamored by thumbs forward and had switched back to a traditional grip too. I shoot way better with the grip pictured below. This stuff is all personal preference.
 
#21 ·
I don't use that thumbs forward grip anymore, and when I checked with two respected competitors/instructors they were not enamored by thumbs forward and had switched back to a traditional grip too. I shoot way better with the grip pictured below. This stuff is all personal preference.
This is the grip I learned while in basic training with the FBI. It is what I have used for the past 40+ years. Just recently I spoke with the just retired lead firearms instructor for the Louisville FBI Office, specifically about what grip the FBI is now teaching its new agents. They are teaching the thumbs forward grip. He showed me the basics of how to do it, and I have been playing with it some. But very hard to teach a dog this old a new trick.
 
#20 ·
I'm glad someone brought this up. Just my opinion, but I think the effect on recoil that a higher grip gives you is somewhat exaggerated since we're talking differences of fractions of an inch which theoretically can be negated by a gun with higher bore axis.

Back in the days before the thumbs-forward grip became popular there were competitors who could shoot amazingly well without it. Not only competitors but survivors of real world shootouts.

I especially like the post by Ithaca deerslayer detailing both the advantages and the disadvantages of the thumbs-forward grip.
 
#23 · (Edited)
I'm sure a lot of people here have way better trigger finger discipline than I do. This is why I need to do it thumbs forward. It gives me leeway on my trigger pull. I just wanted to give insights on why I do it. I wasn't trying to convince anyone to do it. But the grand masters and champs I like to watch seem to like it, so I only emulate the best in the biz.

I just can't see a grip that relies on the placement of the off hand to be a real world solution to both one and two handed shooting.
Real world solution? This guy below is a national champ & SWAT operator. Like I said "I only emulate the best", so if it works for this fine young law enforcement officer, 10-time national champion pistol shooter, I am willing to try it out.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45QhpvY9LZc


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5C3V9w_tl4k&t=29s


Times change, people learn new things. Some old dogs will never be convinced there is a thing that replaces displacement (its called forced induction).
 
#26 ·
It works.

I've been shooting handguns since 1961. When I started, guys were still clenching their left fist and putting it over their heart in the "FBI Crouch". I learned Weaver and shot that way for decades. This winter I began dry fire practice using the New Modern Technique, or thumbs forward. The first match this year, without firing a single round since the last match last fall, I improved my score by a good margin, enough to achieve the first of the goals I set when I got back into shooting after getting the girls through college.

This is the video that convinced me to try it. He plays around at first, but when he gets to explaining after about a minute and a half, it makes sense and it works.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChSazF41q-s


I still have a long way to go, but this is the stance and grip I will be using from now on, and after being stalled for two years, I feel like I am improving again.
 
#32 ·
I converted to a thumbs forward grip and it works for me...if I'm shooting two handed (an awful lot of my shooting is one hand/Point Shooting at 7' - 21') it's thumbs forward. My Wife gets nothing from Thumbs Forward and still "Tea Cups" Auto loaders and out shoots me many times when shooting head to head two handed.

Use what works - one size does not/cannot fit all. Never has, never will...there's a lot of good instructors and competitors out there sharing techniques so try them and see what works best.

VooDoo
 
#35 ·
I converted to a thumbs forward grip and it works for me...if I'm shooting two handed (an awful lot of my shooting is one hand/Point Shooting at 7' - 21') it's thumbs forward. My Wife gets nothing from Thumbs Forward and still "Tea Cups" Auto loaders and out shoots me many times when shooting head to head two handed.

Use what works - one size does not/cannot fit all. Never has, never will...there's a lot of good instructors and competitors out there sharing techniques so try them and see what works best.

VooDoo
You need to dissuade her of that in case a case ruptures and blows down the mag well.

https://www.glocktalk.com/threads/xds-40-case-rupture.1551652/

wp
 
#34 · (Edited)
... I've heard and read this term "Thumbs Forward" ...
Long time shooter here too. I first of the term, "thumbs forward", when shooting games, i.e. IPSC started. So its a 'gamers' technique, JMHO.

Whatever I have done for the last 40 has worked very well.
 
#36 ·
I tried a thumbs-forward grip and didn't do that well at first, but kept messing with it. I think I shoot just a shade better on a static range with it now, but to me it's not a game changer. Unfortunately, I have few opportunities to shoot moving situations in my area. The point that one should be versatile, not needing a perfect stance, grip, and so on, to prevail in a fight, makes a lot of sense to me.
 
#37 ·
I think its big advantage is recoil management. I like it, took about a thousand rounds to get used to it but its not as though I was not going to shoot those thousand rounds anyway.
 
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#38 ·
If I am shooting a gun with safety, my thumb rides the safety. A revolver, it rides the left hand top edge of the target grip. If I am shooting a gun without either, like a Glock. My thumb is always up.

I don't do two handed shooting at all.
 
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