OK, maybe more than one guard fired shots; and the inmates may still be alive... that's unclear at this time. But a yard fight at Pelican Bay Prison turned into a riot, and 5 inmates were shot by tower guards with Mini-14s, as the inmates assaulted a team of C/Os trying to control the fight in the yard.
Fingers crossed that it turns out the way we hope.
Judging by the inmates willingness to assault staff out in the yard, I imagine that the inmates were also quite surprised by the use of live ammo. Bet they'd been warned, though. As far as black rifles, maybe the mini-14 is a politically correct choice.
Having owned one, I can say for certain that they for sure DON'T need THOSE! What they Need is "Riflemen", not spray & pray armchair warriors with a paying job.
Hard to believe they are issued Mini 14's in these days of Black Rifles Rule meaning AR's of course.
Scrap em both and issue Tavor's along with something like an Appleseed training sessions for all guards and MUST qualify passing with a Rifleman rating if they want the job.
Our own local LEO's laugh at their "Non Shooting" ability and joke about it. Crap I can't hit the side of a barn, etc.. TIME to stop this and make Qualification mean something besides what little it does now around here anyway.
Some people are so unappreciative!
Vacation in a gated community, 24 hour armed security, 3 meals/day, gym, library, hundreds of people who think like you, health care, live sex shows, all FREE! Better than I have.
Yrs back I applied for job as prison guard. They brought up working tower. What I would do if riot, staff in danger. I ask what are protocols? Equipment...
" just answer". So I go with report,request help, if rifle shoot prisoners...
They seemed shocked I would consider shooting unarmed prisoners. Then I find there are mini 14s and you get what's left. I expressed concern as large yard. Would rather have scoped rifle I KNOW I could hit what aiming at.
They thought I was too guns ho.
I had been in that prison 3x before. Couple hrs each time. So I had mild hint who was in there, how they act when things are under staff control. Out of control? You just hope you survive till prison retaken.
Prisons should probably have a few M249's in the guard towers for instances like the one in the video. If only there was a federal govt program where law enforcement agencies could get surplus equipment from the military...
In NY, we have scoped AR15's in the towers so you have a better chance of hitting what you aim at. Prison riots are a bad thing, and can get 10 times worse in seconds if action isn't taken fast enough. Sometimes gassing them is not enough.
60'. Must be small prison. St Cloud MN yard. Let's see it was 40 plus acres inside walls IIRC. The yard?? UFTA. I would guess 200 YARDS by 150 yards? It's been 20 yrs. IIRC one of largest. Thickest walls in world. IIRC they could OD it from space with naked eye during Apollo missions?
So over 200yards would be possible. ( if my memory of size is right). Plus you have OUTSIDE walls to consider. Inmates do get outside walls, few escaped from St Cloud. REcall few stories. Hitch hike and car was guard heading in... .
I am told (do NOT have first hand info) newer mini 14 are better, less change of impact after few rds. When others around, even other inmates that may not be involved. A stock older mini 14 would not be my choice.
Heck the wall itself is 30' high(wild guess) in some areas and higher in others.
When I was young I used to watch the prison guards, back then they carried Winchester lever actions all the while they were walking the walls, or standing outside the turrets. Their Winchesters looked like mine (an 1886 model)
ok. I thought I had heard of them. Guess not. IMO the benefit of bull pup is close quarters. Shooting from guard tower. To yard. Compactness IMO not a big deal.
Glad I said "I think" rather then claimed knowing....
ok. I thought I had heard of them. Guess not. IMO the benefit of bull pup is close quarters. Shooting from guard tower. To yard. Compactness IMO not a big deal.
Glad I said "I think" rather then claimed knowing....
Having owned one, I can say for certain that they for sure DON'T need THOSE! What they Need is "Riflemen", not spray & pray armchair warriors with a paying job.
Hard to believe they are issued Mini 14's in these days of Black Rifles Rule meaning AR's of course.
Scrap em both and issue Tavor's along with something like an Appleseed training sessions for all guards and MUST qualify passing with a Rifleman rating if they want the job.
Our own local LEO's laugh at their "Non Shooting" ability and joke about it. Crap I can't hit the side of a barn, etc.. TIME to stop this and make Qualification mean something besides what little it does now around here anyway.
You clearly haven't a clue, you make it sound as if the Guards are worthless and choose to be ill prepared and poorly trained, rest assured they are likely offered no on the job range time outside of the pre employment academy and annual qualifications.
Having owned one, I can say for certain that they for sure DON'T need THOSE! What they Need is "Riflemen", not spray & pray armchair warriors with a paying job.
Hard to believe they are issued Mini 14's in these days of Black Rifles Rule meaning AR's of course.
Scrap em both and issue Tavor's along with something like an Appleseed training sessions for all guards and MUST qualify passing with a Rifleman rating if they want the job.
Our own local LEO's laugh at their "Non Shooting" ability and joke about it. Crap I can't hit the side of a barn, etc.. TIME to stop this and make Qualification mean something besides what little it does now around here anyway.
YES! Absolutely correct and WHY the Israels designed it after being so disappointed with our J*&K. IF they cared about our troops like they claim, they'd be carrying Tavors. Oh NO, its all about $$$. Why do you think they've spent 50 years "trying" to improve the Stoner design? Agree its a lot better than what I got in 68 but its simply the Stoner design and others in past history of the same design that also proved duh.
Would you use a "NON Target Tweeked" AR for distance shooting?
My Tavor is plenty accurate for any defense situation that the 5.56 can handle. It also has an 18" bbl. as compared to a standard M4 design most go for @ only 16" BUT the O.A.L. of my Tavor is Only 27 & 1/8" and NO folding stock to put up with. They feel "clunky" TILL put up to your shoulder. Then they just sort of melt into your body & you can even hold & fire "controlled" One Handed if you need the other hand for something in an emergency which I find Very Difficult to do with an AR and Aimed Fire.
OK, what do You have against Tavor's? Just asking for info. & DON'T want to start any flame contest or whatever.
Oh yes, I've got my share of AR's both standard Stoner & Piston. They all became safe queens after getting the Tavor about a year & a half ago except for the one set up with night vision for Coyotes. If I could afford 2 Tavors, the night vision would be on one.
Quite simply Stoner's design. Whoever said "Its A Good Thing" to route the hot gasses & carbon into the inside of your bolt carrier?
I think some people must simply enjoy scraping carbon & brush scrubbing away their time! Not ME for sure.
One questioned the Tavor's accuracy. Mine will shoot 1.25" groups @ 100 yds. with Good Ammo & my "OLD" worn out eyeball & a Vortex Strike Fire for optics I need badly these days. That's plenty good enough for ME for both Coyotes or Home Defense.
IMHO, why waste time and money for a tower gun? Certainly the Tavor will beat it in about whatever way you want to measure, the marginal utility isn't there against a rifle that is probably only shot at qualifications.
Mini 14 isn't going to win any accuracy matches, but is fairly easy to clean, and even if it is as accurate as a generic AK at 100 yards, it is certainly able to rehabilitate the most hardened felon likely to 200 yards, although the range is probably much closer.
My experiences are from working in a direct supervision jail, and doing transports from my agency's jail to various prisons around Ohio.
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