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Loose Round Falls Out Of Magazine

Glock 17 
6K views 26 replies 18 participants last post by  fastbolt 
#1 ·
As this is my first post, hello everyone.

I'm a firearms instructor at a municipal police department and we just went to Glocks (Glock 17 Gen 4) a few months ago. I've had a few officers come to me with magazine issues. When they remove a full magazine from the weapon, the top round from the magazine comes loose and falls out.

At first I thought they may be doing a press check and pulling back on the slide too far, thus creating a situation where the slide is trying to chamber another round, but this is not the case, as many of these officers said they do not do press checks.

Thoughts?
 
#2 ·
Sounds strange... The top round shouldn't "fall out" from ejecting the full mag. IN fact, no round should fall out while ejecting the mag, full or not. After hitting the mag release button, are they pulling the mag out? or letting it free fall out?
 
#4 ·
I also have never heard of this and certainly not on my pistols. Strange.
 
#8 ·
Can you watch some of these folks load their Glocks at your range (or authorized clearing/loading station, etc)?

No way to know what's happening - or the cause - until you can observe it happening, or experience, for yourself. "He/she said" just doesn't help clarify these sort of things. Kind of like when someone tells you that their gun "jammed". ;)

If it's being user-induced ...

Short version? Often not a "problem" with the gun/mags.

If they're charging/loading the chamber by not immediately and completely releasing the slides, allowing the slides/barrels to briskly run forward, but instead they're keeping their hands on the slides long enough to slow/retard the slide run, they might be initially slowing the slides enough to create unintended increased "drag" on the top round. Slower slide travel can create more drag on the top round (while faster slide travel is usually less likely to create as much friction and drag).

If that's what some of them are doing, then the unwanted drag may sometimes displace the occasional top round enough so the bullet nose hangs up on the bottom of the feed ramp, and is then pulled free of the mag lips when the mag is removed to top it off. It "pops" out from under the mag lips.

This sort of thing has been observed and reported among other makes of pistols for many years, in both single stack and double stack magazines. It's been reported by now and again by different folks using different guns in the major LE calibers over the years (meaning 9, .40 & .45).

Oddly enough, increased drag between the slide's pick-up rail and the top round (especially in a full mag) may occur at each end of the mag spring's service life, meaning when brand new (tight pressure), as well as when old and worn (spring can't keep round pressed against lips firmly enough to resist either recoil or pick-rail movement).

The profile of the cartridge can sometimes have an influence, as well. For example, in 9mm pistols, a 147gr JHP (with its longer OAL), if displaced just enough forward by increased drag with the slide's pick-up rail, may be more likely to reach and hang up on the bottom edge of the mag lips, than a shorter OAL round.

This is usually just a "loading the chamber & topping off" issue, though. If the same folks were to load the gun, and not remove the mags to top off, the slightly displaced rounds would very probably be pushed back by the cycling slide, and then feed normally as the pistol cycled. Some range demonstration might help ease concerns (just chambering/loading from a full mag and shooting without topping off the mag).

I learned this listening to other instructors, and armorer instructors, and experiencing similar "top round" displacement as mags were removed from 3913's, to top them off after chambering a round. Even with the top round initially being displaced (by shooter-induced slow slide run forward), though, the guns would typically feed and function normally.

If you ever browsed the S&W forum you could occasionally read about someone posting a question about seeing this happen, and it concerning them when they saw it, even if it wasn't actually causing a feeding or functioning problem during live-fire. Just looked weird when they saw it.

Now, as the instructor and armorer, it's also prudent to inspect the gun and magazines in order to reasonably to eliminate the potential for any equipment issues (versus user manipulation issues ;) ) to be occurring. Sometimes magazine lip, follower or spring issues may rear the ugly heads, even with the best quality guns. Parts is parts, and magzines are assmeblies of parts, after

This is why I normally liked handling this sort of question at the range, where it could be evaluated and demonstrated during both observed administrative handling and live-fire. If it's the more commonly user-induced issue, then being able to demonstrate that it won't normally interfere with the normal feeding and operation of the gun (equipment) can be a good thing for the line staff.

Of course, like many other instructors, I've had at least my fair share of opportunity to have someone demonstrate how they could manage to induce a resulting feeding/stoppage problem when they did a "press check".

My answer to them? Don't do it that way. Wanna argue about it? Fine, then it's probably a good time to become better skilled at resolving stoppages ... especially if you manage to keep causing them. ;)
 
#9 ·
My opinion they the Barney Fife type that needs an empty revolver and a single bullet kept in their shirt pocket
(This a real story ?)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
#10 ·
I've not heard of this before, but it sounds from the informative post above that it can be an issue.

I measured my gen 3, it looks like it would take ~14mm of forward travel for the round to dislodge assuming the spring is forcing the round upwards that is.

1. The follower may be getting stuck or bound up somehow. After this happens is the next round in the mag tight? Does it rattle if you shake it? Does it happen if you load -1 or -2?

2. You could try to reproduce by riding the slide slowly and see if you can dislodge a round. I could also see where different casings could have different frictions, like a practice round with a rougher case finish could do it where a smooth case may not.

This is an interesting case, please report back when you hear something. Good luck.
 
#13 ·
Thank you for all of the replies. The post / PM I got regarding someone riding the slide forward, thus causing drag, is a good place to start. Thank you. But, I also called our Glock rep yesterday and he's coming out to look at the problem. He also said he's going to replace all of the mags.
 
#14 ·
Interesting that he is going to replace all the magazines. I wonder if they know there are some out there that are not quite up to specification or if it is based on an attempt to instill confidence.
 
#15 ·
I can't remember right now where I read about a smaller dept.
They had been using G-22/23s for quite a while, and liked the round.
A new Chief came along and had always carried a 9mm.
He decided it was time to get new pistols in 9mm, and his favorite Brand.
As they started to transition over, they began to have all kinds of problems with the new pistols. Also The Scores went down, with the new pistols.
They went to new Glocks, G-22/23s, and all the problems went away.
Several years it was found out the problems were self induced because the Officers wanted to keep The Glock 40.
 
#17 ·
There's certainly nothing wrong with replacing the magazines to give the staff confidence that attention's being paid to the issue, and then check the loading/slide manipulation techniques being used. ;)

Besides, there's nothing to say that the company might've experienced a less-than-optimal batch of magazine liners (spec issue), and/or spring issues. It happens with the best of gun companies.
 
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#19 ·
Physics. The act of inserting a full or otherwise magazine into an auto pistol with the slide forward in battery causes the top round to come in contact with the underside of the slide, forcing the cartridges and follower down slightly into the magazine body, along with compressing the magazine spring slightly more. As the slide is racked rearward, this downward protruding section of the slide drags across the top cartridge until it clears the rear of the cartridge case; the top round in the magazine is then free to move up slightly to it's proper position up against the feed lips of the magazine, aimed towards the empty chamber. When the slide is let free to move forward via the stored energy of the recoil spring assembly, the protruding "stripper" part of the slide contacts the top round of the magazine and motivates it towards the chamber as it itself moves forward into battery.

But if a magazine is fully inserted (without chambering a round) into a pistol with the slide forward, and the follower of the magazine binds in this compressed postion (further down inside the magazine than it would have were it outside the firearm), the top round, now being in a lower than normal position, will not be held in place tightly up against the feed lips of the magazine via magazine spring tension, and as such, upon removal of the magazine from the pistol, the top round will be loose.

I had a brand new factory Steyr .40S&W magazine delivered to me with a 9mm follower installed. The rounds went into the magazine ok, and the top round was tight - but upon removal of the top round by hand the rest simply poured out like M&M's out of a jar because the follower was canted badly and stuck 2/3 the way down the magazine body...

Anyway I'm going to vote that this is a follower related issue on this one.

Oh, and welcome to the forum :D
 
#20 ·
It may be too late to chime in on this thread, but I've never let that stop me before...

My G26 does something similar with all of my magazines. Insert a full magazine, rack slide to chamber first round, then drop the magazine.

More often than not, the top round in the magazine will have slid forward 1/4" to 1/2". It doesn't fall out per se, but can easily be knocked out of the magazine if I don't shove the nose back in.

It seems to be normal for my Glock, and as I said it does it with all 8 of my G26 magazines and my two G19 magazines. It does absolutely nothing to affect the reliability or shootability of my G26. When the magazine is inserted, the second round can only slide so far forward as the top round is stripped and put into the chamber by the slide. Then the 'new' top round is slightly forward in the feed lips.

I just have to push the top round back fully into the magazine at the end of the day when I clear my weapon.
 
#21 ·
This happened to me when I put a +3 base into the bottom of the magazine but didnt snap the base all the way on to the magazine bottom. It was a Terran tactical +3 base with a pin that has to clear the magazine bottom to lock in the base and I actually had to lean body weight onto the base/magazine on a hard surface to get it to snap in properly.

Sounds like you caught some bad magazines. Maybe the its the spring, maybe the feed lip is catching on a burr inside the magazine. Maybe you have a bad base or its installed incorrectly.
 
#23 ·
Except, unless I'm misunderstanding the instructor's post, it was using new guns/mags & using duty quality ammo, and it was happening not during live-fire, but just during administrately loading/chambering/topping off mags.
 
#24 ·
Do the guns shoot?
Dragging out the top round is dead common in SIGs and sometimes in 9mm 1911s.
All of those I have seen, the top round is in line with the feed ramp and the gun will fire the chambered round, chamber the slightly out of position round, and continue normally.
 
#25 ·
Do the guns shoot?
Dragging out the top round is dead common in SIGs and sometimes in 9mm 1911s.
All of those I have seen, the top round is in line with the feed ramp and the gun will fire the chambered round, chamber the slightly out of position round, and continue normally.

Yep, not uncommon in S&W 3rd gen's, either.

Like another poster noted, I've often had to reseat the top round in one of my own G26's when pulling a loaded mag, and that's with new, or at least relatively fresh, springs, too.
 
#27 ·
Yep, dirty mags contaminated with "gritty" sand or dirt can introduce interference between the follower and the mag/liner walls, as well as between the individual cases and walls (and other cases, perhaps), no doubt. BTDT/BTST. ;)

The instructor didn't explain enough background info for his situation in that regard, though.
 
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