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Fostech Echo trigger - installation and couch impressions.

10K views 23 replies 8 participants last post by  RWBlue 
#1 ·
After waiting for almost a year, my Echo came in the mail today. For anyone not familiar with the trigger, it's a three function trigger. Safe, standard semi-auto, and "Echo". Echo mode fires a round on both trigger pull and on release, allowing for extremely fast and precise controlled pairs. Should you not wish to fire a round on release while in Echo mode, it can be negated by simply holding the trigger to the rear and rotating the safety to either Semi or Safe and then releasing the trigger. The rifle can also be put on Safe with the hammer down, which is a feature unique to the Echo system.

Despite offering nearly instant controlled pairs as well as nearly cyclic sustained fire, this trigger does NOT convert a standard AR15 into a machine gun, and is not governed by the NFA in any way. Legally it is no different than any other standard AR trigger, due to the fact that each round is fired by deliberate manipulation of the trigger.


Unlike some similar systems, the trigger pack is designed so that it cannot be over run by pulling the trigger too quickly, resulting in the hammer following the bolt carrier so you end up with the hammer forward on a live round, which would need to be remedied by re-charging the rifle and ejecting the chambered round.

Installation was easy enough, you just have to hold the trigger lock and spring in place at the rear of the trigger pack while inserting the whole thing into the lower, but it's really not difficult. One caveat is that you have to be very mindful to not pull the trigger while inserting the pack into the lower. I managed not to, but apparently if the trigger is pulled before it's secured in the lower, parts go flying everywhere and are a pain to re-assemble. Once the pack is installed with standard trigger pins (not provided), the safety can be installed. I had to wiggle it a bit to get it through, but nothing too bad. Once the body of the safety is in place, there is a small collar that goes through from the right side and an ambi lever that screws on.

The trigger also comes with a stripped, slightly modified auto BC that is a necessary component. The modification is just a small radius to the bottom shelf of the carrier that engages the trigger lock and prevents hammer follow. Installing the bolt, cam pin, firing pin, and firing pin retaining pin (none of which are included) in the carrier is no different than any other standard carrier.

Once the carrier is assembled and installed in the upper and the trigger pack, safety lever, and pistol grip are in place in the lower, there is one small small difference in how the halves are mated compared to a standard setup, which is not explained well in the instructions.

Before the rear takedown pin can be secured, the hammer has to be cocked, the trigger lock pushed forward, and then the trigger must be pulled and held to the rear. This keeps the trigger lock from hitting the bottom of the bolt carrier and preventing the upper and lower from closing all the way. Once the halves are closed, the takedown pin can be pushed across and the trigger released.


With all that said, here are my initial dry fire impressions.

Safety - not as crisp as the Battle Arms ambi safety that was on the rifle, which I'm chalking up to the added complexity of the system as well as the fact that it hasn't had the chance to break in and smooth out yet. I do like the ability to put the rifle on safe with the hammer down.

Trigger feel - Again not as crisp as the Giessele SSA-E I had in it, but that's no surprise. There's a bit of grit, but I'm hoping it smooths out with use. In Echo mode the trigger must be pulled past the break, all the way to the rear, in order for the hammer to fall on release. I imagine it'll take a bit of getting used to, but it seems intuitive enough that there shouldn't be much of a learning curve.

I wouldn't use this system in a defensive or precision rifle, but it should be a lot of fun and I look forward to putting some rounds through it.



Here's a picture I found on MDShooters that shows the Echo BC compared to a standard auto BC:





Military Arms Channel installation and use video:

 
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#3 ·
Not at all cheap at $479.

However, for that price you not only get the Echo mode, but also a good single stage semi trigger, ambi safety, and high quality bolt carrier.

Just lubing it a bit and doing some dry firing has already cleaned up the trigger pull and selector manipulation.
 
#4 ·
After waiting for almost a year, my Echo came in the mail today. For anyone not familiar with the trigger, it's a three function trigger. Safe, standard semi-auto, and "Echo". Echo mode fires a round on both trigger pull and on release, allowing for extremely fast and precise controlled pairs. Should you not wish to fire a round on release while in Echo mode, it can be negated by simply holding the trigger to the rear and rotating the safety to either Semi or Safe and then releasing the trigger. The rifle can also be put on Safe with the hammer down, which is a feature unique to the Echo system.

Despite offering nearly instant controlled pairs as well as nearly cyclic sustained fire, this trigger does NOT convert a standard AR15 into a machine gun, and is not governed by the NFA in any way. Legally it is no different than any other standard AR trigger, due to the fact that each round is fired by deliberate manipulation of the trigger.


Unlike some similar systems, the trigger pack is designed so that it cannot be over run by pulling the trigger too quickly, resulting in the hammer following the bolt carrier so you end up with the hammer forward on a live round, which would need to be remedied by re-charging the rifle and ejecting the chambered round.

Installation was easy enough, you just have to hold the trigger lock and spring in place at the rear of the trigger pack while inserting the whole thing into the lower, but it's really not difficult. One caveat is that you have to be very mindful to not pull the trigger while inserting the pack into the lower. I managed not to, but apparently if the trigger is pulled before it's secured in the lower, parts go flying everywhere and are a pain to re-assemble. Once the pack is installed with standard trigger pins (not provided), the safety can be installed. I had to wiggle it a bit to get it through, but nothing too bad. Once the body of the safety is in place, there is a small collar that goes through from the right side and an ambi lever that screws on.

The trigger also comes with a stripped, slightly modified auto BC that is a necessary component. The modification is just a small radius to the bottom shelf of the carrier that engages the trigger lock and prevents hammer follow. Installing the bolt, cam pin, firing pin, and firing pin retaining pin (none of which are included) in the carrier is no different than any other standard carrier.

Once the carrier is assembled and installed in the upper and the trigger pack, safety lever, and pistol grip are in place in the lower, there is one small small difference in how the halves are mated compared to a standard setup, which is not explained well in the instructions.

Before the rear takedown pin can be secured, the hammer has to be cocked, the trigger lock pushed forward, and then the trigger must be pulled and held to the rear. This keeps the trigger lock from hitting the bottom of the bolt carrier and preventing the upper and lower from closing all the way. Once the halves are closed, the takedown pin can be pushed across and the trigger released.


With all that said, here are my initial dry fire impressions.

Safety - not as crisp as the Battle Arms ambi safety that was on the rifle, which I'm chalking up to the added complexity of the system as well as the fact that it hasn't had the chance to break in and smooth out yet. I do like the ability to put the rifle on safe with the hammer down.

Trigger feel - Again not as crisp as the Giessele SSA-E I had in it, but that's no surprise. There's a bit of grit, but I'm hoping it smooths out with use. In Echo mode the trigger must be pulled past the break, all the way to the rear, in order for the hammer to fall on release. I imagine it'll take a bit of getting used to, but it seems intuitive enough that there shouldn't be much of a learning curve.

I wouldn't use this system in a defensive or precision rifle, but it should be a lot of fun and I look forward to putting some rounds through it.



Here's a picture I found on MDShooters that shows the Echo BC compared to a standard auto BC:




Military Arms Channel installation and use video:

That's a pretty nice piece of equipment, I know you like the hell out of it a lot of fun. I have the Tac-Con 3 MP trigger in my RR, and My SW-MP sport. I bought them when it first came out what last year (time flies so fast). Safe, semi, and mp, has to be cocked to put the safety on. Fires as fast as the trigger can be pulled and trigger doesn't set as far foward on mp as on semi, it barely moves. I'm used to it now, a neighbor asked once if I had an auto. I think I paid $330 or something like that.
 
#6 ·
Looks like I am digging up an old thread.

They are now out with a Gen2. It runs a standard full auto carrier.

Here is my dumb question...
Should this work with a 22LR conversion?

And lets assume I am not pushing the speed limits...

thanks
 
#7 ·
I have no idea, probably depends on the .22 kit. I have seen them work fine in a couple of PCCs. AFAIK as long as the lower accepts standard AR trigger components and the carrier has the correct ledge in the right spot, it should work.
 
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#8 ·
I realize I never came back to say what I think about the trigger after actually getting some rounds downrange with it.

After a bit over a thousand rounds over a 2-3 sessions, I like it a lot! The gritty feeling disappeared after a few mags, and is now a very decent single stage feel. The safety still isn't as crisp as the BAD ambis on my other rifles, but it's perfectly fine.

The learning curve for Echo mode was quite a bit steeper than I had thought it would be. Getting the hang of controlled pairs was very quick and easy, but doing near cyclic mag dumps definitely required a bit of practice.

A full front to back pull and release is necessary to really get it going, and after decades of only manipulating from break to reset, it takes a little getting used to for sure. That said, if you miss the cadence, the only action required to fire the next round is to release the trigger and pull it again. No malfunction clearing of any kind is needed.

Other than a few cadence stumbles I had no issues with cycling. The only ammo I used was PMC XTAC 55gr. 5.56 (M193 spec) out of 30rd. USGI and Gen 2 Pmags. Overall a lot of fun and, in my opinion, well worth the money.
 
#10 ·
Interesting device, while it will fit my lower with no problem the bolt carrier is set up for all of you backwards right handed people and my Stag 3L has a left handed upper.
 
#12 ·
It is probably stupid, BUT.....I want one.
 
#14 ·
The problem I have is that the entire upper on the 3L is left handed, ejection port and forward assist are on the left side versus right side, the bolt carrier is physically different from the normal bolt carrier and I can't swap the factory left hand bolt carrier for a standard right hand bolt carrier. I doubt FosTech is going to manufacture a second, left hand bolt carrier for the small number of us that would buy their product and have a left hand upper.
 
#18 ·
The lower on my 3L is a standard lower with the exception that the selector is on the opposite of the lower but is easily changed to an ambidexterous selector.

As I understood the Fostech Echo bolt carrier it has a radius cut at the rear of the bolt carrier instead of the standard straight cut. If a standard M-16 bolt carrier will work instead of the Fostech one then I should be good.
 
#22 ·
NeverMore1701: Thanks for the clarification on the bolt carrier, as it came out of the box the selector lever was positioned to be used with the thumb of the left hand when holding the pistol grip, a right handed user would have to use their trigger finger. I replaced the factory selector with a standard ambidextrous selector so both right and left hand on the grip can manipulate the selector with either the thumb or trigger finger depending on the users preference.
 
#24 ·
Cool
 
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