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learning how to train

1K views 19 replies 10 participants last post by  -JCN- 
#1 ·
Took a 6 hour advanced CCW class yesterday. The initial qualification class was really more about when to shoot, and this was how to shoot.

Realized I've been wasting a lot of ammo training on my own and not improving. Usually put a silhouette out at 7 yards and figure if I hit the middle 12" good enough, and kind of rushing through it.

This instructor started by having us shoot a 2"x3" rectangle at 3 yards. I'd put two inside and the others close, maybe a 4" pattern. Next he had us shoot a 1" dot. Suddenly I got twice as accurate. Huh. With refinement and his coaching, by the end of the day could put 4/5 shots on the dot, 1 hole or pretty close. Amazing what training with someone who knows what they are doing can do for you. Others there had similar experiences. The $150 fee was far better spent than running though hundreds of dollars of ammo alone.

Also did draw, move and draw, and eyes closed drills. Everything helped.

Highly recommend taking courses like this.

Only downside was a lady in the class who had no business with a gun. Thought she was going to kill one of us. Gun constantly "jamming" (won't shoot with the safety on), forgetting to load the gun, waving it around, and when the instructor said "dry fire" she used just her hands (no gun). Was keeping the other nine of us either scared or amused.
 
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#2 ·
I agree it can be good to shoot with stronger shooters, even in formal instruction situations. But ultimately, you have to learn how to teach yourself and really own your internal process.

The real value of being taught a particular shooting skill is in learning that a process of discovery can be applied to acquiring other skills.
 
#3 ·
I agree it can be good to shoot with stronger shooters, even in formal instruction situations. But ultimately, you have to learn how to teach yourself and really own your internal process.

The real value of being taught a particular shooting skill is in learning that a process of discovery can be applied to acquiring other skills.
Agree but if you do not know how, you can't really teach yourself. I instruct & compete & still take a class every couple years from a more advanced shooter than I am. You can often find that one little nugget that gets the wheels turning, the light bulb goes on & you can improve that on your own.
 
#10 ·
I'm speaking from personal experience, Fred - not theory.

I didn’t even pick up a gun until I was 46. Shot one year of club matches, then classified B. The reason I had a master card 2 years later was not because of people teaching me techniques. It was because I committed myself to understanding a process of personal development. I simply applied the same concepts I used in music, academics, sports and marriage.

Yes, I started out with a good deal of formal instruction, but that was just defensive stuff. In terms of competitive shooting, I’ve taken 3 formal classes from distinguished shooters, and I can tell you precisely what I learned from each of them… and not much of it is technique.

The sooner a shooter can learn to make his own “nuggets”, the better.
 
#4 ·
Only downside was a lady in the class who had no business with a gun. Thought she was going to kill one of us. Gun constantly "jamming" (won't shoot with the safety on), forgetting to load the gun, waving it around, and when the instructor said "dry fire" she used just her hands (no gun). Was keeping the other nine of us either scared or amused.
Every training class will have such students. At least she has taken the time to try & fix it, not just buying the gun & a box of ammo & declaring themselves prepared. I see it ever weekend in my IDPA comps. Every one is new to this at some point. It is realizing that you need the help/training to get beyond it. The rest is up to you.
How good do you want to be? I want to be good enough so that if I get into a fight, shooting the gun is not in my thought process. That is more automatic & I can focus 99% on the tactical things needed to survive the attack. There is a reason that the best professionals that go armed train & practice often.
 
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#5 ·
It sounds like you are a new-ish shooter (?). I was in the same boat a few years ago, mostly making noise and empty brass on the range. Then I started taking classes from a variety of instructors. I learned a lot about how to shoot better but also how to practice.

I think Paul Howe said it best: would you go to the gym and just start lifting weights and doing other exercises? Or would you go in with a plan?

I'd urge you and anyone else in your position to visit The Tactical Professor (do a Google) and also PistolTraining.com. On both sites you'll find lots of different drills worth practicing.
 
#6 ·
Only downside was a lady in the class who had no business with a gun. Thought she was going to kill one of us. Gun constantly "jamming" (won't shoot with the safety on), forgetting to load the gun, waving it around, and when the instructor said "dry fire" she used just her hands (no gun). Was keeping the other nine of us either scared or amused.
This is the part of "no permit" CCW that scares me. Education is key for a lot of people. And sometimes people don't know what they don't know. Good on her for trying. Think of it this way... would you rather have her be scary in a classroom... or scary in a defense situation...
 
#7 · (Edited)
Get a .22. It's lower recoil will help you to shoot without flinching.

At your stage of learning, you might consider shooting more .22 than center fire. Maybe 75% - 25%.

Later, split your training time 50 / 50.

Developing a bad flinch now may become a lifetime habit.
Here's a writeup that may help:
https://www.glocktalk.com/a/curing-a-flinch.5/
 
#8 ·
The old adage of "you don't know what you don't know" is true.
Most of my friends have never taken a c lass of any kind.
I feel it's either ego or fear.
Ego in that guys feel they have a gun and figure they know enough to rise to any occasion they might need to. Ha.
Fear in that they do not want their peers to see how little they really do know.

I've found that training with professional instructors has taught me that the whole concept of training is a pyramid of skill sets.
Once you master or at least get comfortable enough, you realize there is yet another level and another and another.
A professional trainer has the ability to diagnose specific problems just by watching you shoot..

OK.
I'm going to go do a refresher.
 
#9 ·
The old adage of "you don't know what you don't know" is true.
Most of my friends have never taken a c lass of any kind.
I feel it's either ego or fear.
Ego in that guys feel they have a gun and figure they know enough to rise to any occasion they might need to. Ha.
Fear in that they do not want their peers to see how little they really do know.

I've found that training with professional instructors has taught me that the whole concept of training is a pyramid of skill sets.
Once you master or at least get comfortable enough, you realize there is yet another level and another and another.
A professional trainer has the ability to diagnose specific problems just by watching you shoot..

OK.
I'm going to go do a refresher.
Agree. Spend more on instruction and less on ammo. He got lot more done with fewer rounds.
 
#12 ·
You would be the exception & not the rule, imo. Many people have issues with comprehension, visualization, coordination. The fact you can do that doesnt mean someone else can. I'm 100% self taught as a shooter. My 1st formal training was in my post training in the academy, which i could have taught. I'm a better shooter now at 60 than i was then at 32. Yes most of that is me, but i attribute some of it to the nuggets i got from a couple of good instructors. Those with exceptional abilities learn far faster than others. If it were not true, the sport would be full of master shooters.
I'm not disputing that my chronology is atypical. What I'm disputing is why it is.

There are 2 kinds of people shooting at the M/GM level: extremely talented shooters and those shooters who are able to break their own process through to fundamental insight. The first group doesn't necessarily know how to explain what they do. The second group had no choice other than to explain it to move forward.

Talking about how fast people learn... You have to consider how much time a person is putting in on a daily or weekly basis. I dry fired at least 1 hour/day and shot about 30k/year for 4 years to get to the point where I was really starting to see things. That might be fast progress on the calendar, but not necessarily in terms of rounds fired or hours spent.

Among my shooting peers, I think I'm a pretty slow learner.
 
#14 ·
The simple fact you dry fire 1hr a day puts you in the 1% of all shooters. Most dont dry fire at all, shoot almost as little. If you have any talent & drive, you can reach pretty lofty goals. Of course one does need good hand to eye, something many, surprisingly, do not.
 
#13 · (Edited)
This is the part of "no permit" CCW that scares me. Education is key for a lot of people. And sometimes people don't know what they don't know. Good on her for trying. Think of it this way... would you rather have her be scary in a classroom... or scary in a defense situation...
CCWers with permits aren't much better. Few carry classes actually teach people how to shoot. They tend to be much more geared to basic safety and the law. Even fewer students continue to train or even shoot after their course. Way too many people think buying the gun makes them prepared.

As far as classes go, I'm of two minds. I am 100% self taught. My dad was not a pistol shooter. I've never taken a training course and never actually practiced. I just figured things out on my own and had the mentality to recognize and implement the techniques I saw in competition. On the other hand, I've seen a majority of shooters struggle to gain traction. They just can't seem to improve on their own and a class with a skilled trainer or some private sessions with a better shooter can help them immensely.
 
#15 ·
The previous posts show me that there are definitely multiple ways to become a better shooter.
Taking a class from others who've done it before is a great way to continue the learning process. Now take that and make it an ingrained skill.
We should never stop learning.
 
#16 ·
Good Instructor ... a lot seem to be there to only teach the legal / req'd stuff and then "help" anyone that is struggling to meet the very liberal "marksmanship" requirements.

Ya' gotta' love his "aim small, miss small exercise"

I would offer that SD shooting is more about speed, movement and quickness of draw with "good enough" accuracy than the typical static fire scenario focusing on pretty, tight groups.

Sounds like this Instructor gave you a taste of that, which is great. Keep it up!
 
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