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You may have more in common with radical environmentalists than you think!

Discussion in 'Survival/Preparedness Forum' started by IndianaMatt, May 29, 2012.

  1. IndianaMatt

    IndianaMatt

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    I was reading about environmental movements, in particular the ones often considered more extreme.

    One of the main tenets of one of the major "deep ecology" movements is the belief that industrial civilization will inevitably collapse.

    The Deep Green movement holds that current environmental and land use policies are totally unsustainable, one of the main reasons being that we extract far more energy than the land can sustainably provide, and also that we PRODUCE far more waste than the system can abosrb.

    Ergo, total social collapse is inevitable, as our ecological bank account is vastly overdrawn.

    What do you think?
     
  2. kirgi08

    kirgi08 Watcher. Silver Member

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    Acme proving grounds.
    Our 30ys of food will outlast the guesses.'08. :dunno:
     

  3. Bolster

    Bolster Not Ready Yet!

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    State of Stupidity
    Total societal collapse is a constant theme in human history, belonging to all sorts of creeds and ideologies. The "world has been ending" since it began, in the minds of humans.
     
  4. barbedwiresmile

    barbedwiresmile Unreconstructed

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    I would have more respect for radical environmentalist's point of view if 1) they ever got their hands dirty farming & ranching (tough to take urban environmentalists seriously) and 2) they recognized the left's embrace of environmentalism as a Trojan Horse for socialism. If we could just separate the statism from the environmentalism, we might have a meaningful dialogue.

    The good news is that the natural food movement is full of good ole fashioned folks who get their hands dirty practicing what they preach. These folks, unlike the 'environmentalists', recognize the danger of our increasing trajectory towards statism, our drift into proto-fascism, and the brazen corruption of our lawmaking process.
     
  5. quake

    quake Millennium Member

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    I'd agree with bolster & barbedwiresmile both on this. As far as their decry of "...environmental and land use policies...", those policies are government-set by their very nature. Similar to what barbedwiresmile said, those folks would have more credibility with me personally if they'd protest against the people who create those policies (the govt) and seeing them as the problem, rather than constantly running to them and touting more nanny-govt policies as somehow being the cure.
     
  6. Syclone538

    Syclone538

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    Well, yeah, I'm pretty sure we are using oil, natural gas, and coal faster then it's being created. That can not go on forever.
     
  7. G29Reload

    G29Reload Tread Lightly

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    [​IMG]


    We, most of us here, don't have anything in common with that.
     
  8. Bolster

    Bolster Not Ready Yet!

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    State of Stupidity
    Here's some other things I have in common with radical environmentalists:

    They wear pants, I wear pants.
    They eat food, I eat food.
    They vote, I vote.
    They watch MSNBC & vote blindly for Democrats, and ... well, I don't do that.

    But you should see the list of things I have in common with Hitler!
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2012
  9. racerford

    racerford

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    I thought sheep and cattle and human flatulence were endangering the ozone layer? That is methane being released at a tremendous rate. There is a contention that "oil" may be produced abiotically. Coal is carbon. It is one of the most abundant elements on earth. Short of fusion and fission, and meteorites we have the same amount of carbon that we had one million trash ago.

    How do you explain methane on Jupiter and its moons if HCs are not abiotic?


    Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine
     
  10. RWBlue

    RWBlue Mr. CISSP, CISA CLM

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    Many of the green people would make good survivalists, with one exception..........they for get the number one rule.
     
  11. pugman

    pugman

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    The Deep Green Resistance has valid concerns. They argue a great deal of traditional knowledge has been lost; I tend to believe this knowledge hasn't been lost but squeezed into a smaller and smaller sect of society. Randomly take ten people into the woods with no tools and ask them to try and start a fire under the best possible conditions - unless you get lucky and grab a handful of eagle scouts or preppers I bet 3 in 10 might have the knowledge to even try and make some sort of frictional tool. I bet 1 in 10 even on the nicest and driest day in July might actually get a fire going. Lets not even start to try and think how many might be able to field dress an animal or cast their own bullet (I can do the first...never did the second)

    They also argue personal changes (aka taking shorter showers) isn't enough and in order to deal with the threat and that you need to hold industries, institutions and governments accountable - makes sense to me. I see the national debt the same way; our current federal government (and in a greater sense the world's economic climate) IMO is unsustainable. Some of their ideologies are extreme only in the sense its a radical different approach to the way we live today. You will never get 310 million Americans to suddenly start farming

    Their problem is they don't condemn violence as a means to an end - in this sense they are ecoterriorts. Que the 12 Monkeys music...

    If you want a different opinion but along the same lines look into Bright Green Environmentalism
     
  12. Bren

    Bren NRA Life Member

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    I think we can do anything we want to the earth and it will still last longer thahn I have any use for it.

    Yes, I am serious.
     
  13. cyrsequipment

    cyrsequipment Angry

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    I believe MANY of the same things that the environmentalists believe, just for different reasons...

    I want to reduce my use of oil, not because of the environmental impact (well that isn't the primary reason) but because I want to be as self-sufficient as I possibly can.

    I want to expand the use and efficiency of "alternative energy" not because I believe that we are about to run out of oil and coal any minute, but because eventually we will and we need to shift the infrastructure now and not when we are about to run out, mainly for economic reasons.

    I don't like pollution, not because I think that "man-made global warming" has ANY truth to it whatsoever but because I think that releasing toxins into the environment ain't a real good idea for those of us that have a nasty habit of breathing and eating.

    I want to live in a very rural area and grow my own food, not because I am a hippie and want to pontificate that capitalism is bad, but because I am a capitalist and want to be left the freak alone as much as possible.

    The differences between me and the stereotypical environmentalist is that they are opposed to any sort of "progress" (ironic that most of them consider themselves progressives) in the way of the environment, while I am open to new ways of dealing with the environment. They oppose any use of the natural environment, while I think that we have a right to utilize our resources responsibly. They think that the solution to their percieved problems is government intervention, while I think that the government should stay out of most of the issues.

    On top of that, most environmentalists are rather childish in their theories and "solutions" and can't think beyond an elementary school level, while I realize that most problems require in-depth solutions from a variety of areas.

    Plus, I like shooting guns and I think environmentalists smell really bad.
     
  14. Stevekozak

    Stevekozak Returning video

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    This was a good post, and I wholeheartedly agree!
     
  15. sebecman

    sebecman

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    PLEASE. :rofl:

    Radical environmentalists like ELF have been responsible for Arson, Murder, Extortion, B&E...millions of dollars in property damages and lost jobs/production all across the country.

    I know men that worked as loggers who can't walk like you and I can because they cut into a tree that was spiked by one of these nuts. Their only crime was trying to feed their families.

    ELF protests wind farms in my state by driving their gas guzzling SUV's up here from New York and Conn, then shackled themselves to the construction equipment, preventing good people from working and creating clean energy, all in the name of "not obstructing the views and wildlife" of Maine.

    They form coalitions to buy up forest and "preserve" it by shutting down all access for trapping and hunting, not realizing that in today's world with human pop growth, the animal populations need managing thru hunting to keep down large scale deaths due to overfeeding and a whole slew of viruses/bacteria/etc.

    Environmental radicals are nothing more than terrorist wack jobs...their Allah is Mother Earth and they can see nothing else.....even at the detriment and expense of their diety.
     
  16. rwrjr

    rwrjr

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    See the second quote in my signature block below. This accurately describes virtually all radical environmentalists and "climate changers".
     
  17. cyrsequipment

    cyrsequipment Angry

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    While you are right about their ignorance in regards to their tactics and small-mindness. I think the issue pointed out by the OP was the similarities of philosophy.

    Quimby (whom I think you were referring to), is a complete elitist moron who does not have a clue what she is doing and feels that because of her beliefs, she is better than al of the rest of this state... she is the prime example of the ignorance of their tactics that overshadows the underlying belief.
     
  18. garyjandfamily

    garyjandfamily

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    The more important question is:

    If " total social collapse is inevitable", do vegetarians and vegans taste better? 'Kinda like grass-fed, free range beef? This could be important information to know...
     
  19. RWBlue

    RWBlue Mr. CISSP, CISA CLM

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    We usually let the threads go to page three before we start talking about cannibalism.




    BTW, Personally I think clowns taste funny.:supergrin:
     
  20. DrSticky

    DrSticky

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    For me the key difference has to do with Freedom. For example, while we both agree that we should reduce oil usage, they want to force me to stop and I want to stop on my terms at a time of my choosing.