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Would you, could you, should you shoot this man?

Discussion in 'General Firearms Forum' started by hogship, Mar 23, 2012.


  1. hogship

    hogship
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    <script src="http://player.ooyala.com/player.js?embedCode=p5aGI4NDqfNuRjwNNmIlXYnFtv2vaisa&deepLinkEmbedCode=p5aGI4NDqfNuRjwNNmIlXYnFtv2vaisa&width=640&height=360"></script>
    http://entertainment.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/23/10828900-man-pulls-a-gun-on-arkansas-news-team

    Sorry, having trouble figuring how to embed a video. If someone can tell me how to do it, I'll fix it.......thanks.

    ............................................

    Forget the subject of the video, and put yourself into the scenario, instead of the camera crew.

    As I watched this video, I projected myself into it and asked myself if I could, would, or should shoot this man if he acted this way with me.

    I believe it would fit the prerequisites of fearing for my life, and the man was armed. He did not directly point the gun at me (or cameraman, reporter), but he was definitely "brandishing" in a very threatening manner.

    Is there anything else that would have been appropriate to note here?

    I think a defensive response is definitely warranted, but to what degree? Is a shooting justified under the law? I think so, but what do you all think?

    ooc
     

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  2. Javelin

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    He will be charged with brandishing and assault and all that good stuff.

    He will probably be convicted too.
     

  3. Bald Baron

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    Only you can determine what puts you in fear for your life. You then act accordingly. Then you will have to explain your actions to others and accept the consequences if any.:wavey:
     
  4. hogship

    hogship
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    Agreed, but I'm asking what you would do. I've already said I think a shooting would have been justified......What I want to know is what others think if they were confronted by this situation.

    The only thing that makes me wonder some about this situation, is that the man's gun was not pointed directly at me. Is this the point where the law would not justify a shooting in self defense......or, must I wait for the weapon to be pointed directly at me to warrant a legally justified armed response? If this is so, then it would seem to me that I would likely have to resign myself to shooting after having been shot at first.......yes?

    If the gun is pointed directly at you, is "intent" any less/more evident than the actions of the man in the video? :dunno:

    ooc
     
    #4 hogship, Mar 23, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2012
  5. WinterWizard

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    #5 WinterWizard, Mar 23, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2012
  6. AA#5

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    No, I wouldn't have to think about shooting him because if I were on someone else's property & they asked me to leave, I'd leave.

    Additionally, when news people are violating someone's privacy and trespassing, it's even more annoying.

    Of course, that doesn't mean it's OK to brandish a gun.
     
  7. GlockFish

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    hogship, I like your other avatar better. I keep thinking you're a noob when I see your posts now.
     
  8. hogship

    hogship
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    I'd leave, too......so were the camera crew and reporter. This has little bearing on the man's intent......

    I guess one would have to ask why the gun became a part of the scenario in the first place, if "brandishing"on private property meant there were was never any intent to use it.........right? In my way of thinking, it makes no difference where this all takes place......what does make a difference is there was intent on the man's part to be perceived as a deadly threat to my life, and it looks like an equally deadly response would have been necessary to ensure my own safety.

    If I can "read" into your response, you would not use deadly force, because you were on private property? If that were the lawful determination of whether a response is justified, then the act of ringing somebody's doorbell means your rights to defense of your life ended at the property line?

    All this is hypothetical, and your thoughts are perfectly ok with me.......just as I'm doing nothing more than expressing an opinion as well........



    ooc
     
  9. hogship

    hogship
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    Yeah......me, too.......Jack Nicholson is one-of-a-kind!

    Every once in awhile, I get a "wild hair", and get an itch to change.......it was time!

    :supergrin:

    ooc
     
  10. Dalton Wayne

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    Looked like a High Point
     
  11. HandyMan Hugh

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    The decision to shoot would have to be made on the scene and in a split second. For me it would depend on how angry the gunman appeared to be. This guy at the point the news people left, he just looked like he was trying to intimidate them. He let them know he was armed, but went no farther than that. If he had brought the pistol from behind his leg, I would shoot. Fortunately, the news team got good footage of the confrontation, so the charges should stick, and that idiot should loose his gun rights forever. :steamed:
     
  12. WiskyT

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    First, it was a public street. Second, it wasn't the ****bird's property. He has no more business telling them to leave a third party's property than I do telling you to get off your neighbor's lawn. Third, they were leaving. It would have been a good shoot, plane and simple if liberal reporters carried guns and dumped that pipe head.

    Also, by blocking the roadway and the reporter's ability to retreat, it would have given her even more justification in shooting him.
     
  13. hogship

    hogship
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    I believe you have raised an excellent point, Hugh.....

    It does look like the man appeared to deliberately show the gun, then hide it behind his leg.....and, this does (on the surface) seem to indicate an intent to intimidate as a primary motive. Your suggestion on evaluating just how angry the man appeared to be, and how that would effect the outcome, is guesswork at best. To me, he definitely looked "angry"......so, at what point does that make the difference in whether he'll use the gun, or not? That seems to be a question that you or I couldn't answer with any definitive conclusion.......don't you think?

    I think, if it were me, I'd have drawn and shot him, at the very moment I saw him get the gun out of the truck.......and, at that moment, it would have been lawfully justified. Since he "brandished" the gun, and then hid it behind his leg, at that point, it would seem the intent to use it would have shifted to the level of intimidation, rather than as an actual deadly threat. If, and only if, I had shot him at the moment I saw the gun, it would have been lawfully justified. At the moment where he held it behind his leg, THEN it would seem that the legal justification may have been unclear at that point. That point is not conclusive to my thinking at this time......because "intent" is still up to speculation.

    Good input......and thanks for giving it.

    ooc
     
  14. DonD

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    Good post in my opinion.

    My cop son always emphasizes that one of your most if not the most important thing you can do after a defensive shoot is to accurately and non aggressively articulate what was going on w/o acting like a vigilante. Don
     
  15. Bruce M

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    I think there are alot of shootings that are questionable and can be difficult to determine who was the victim and who was the subject. Had this been a shooting, I do not think it would be one of the many that seem questionable.
     
    #15 Bruce M, Mar 23, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2012
  16. Nutt51

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    Heard tonight that after the news crew called the police and filed a complaint, the local police knew who the idiot was. He later turned himself in and one officer said that
    he would be charged with a felony assault charge, at the
    least.
    Guess he will be spending time in the pokey with his
    sister and her boyfriend, who were the ones the news crew were investigating over the murder.
     
  17. hogship

    hogship
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    Hmmmmm.......this is getting off the point, but am I mistaken to think there is no basis for an assault charge? There was no assault that I saw. I did see gross misuse of a firearm, and there is no doubt the news crew and reporter were in fear for their lives......but, no assault, or physical contact at all........

    I am not someone who is familiar with this aspect of the law, and it may be the case that an assault charge would be the correct charge......but, if not, what would be the correct charge to make against the man?

    ooc
     
  18. HandyMan Hugh

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    Hogship, thanks for the kind comments. It is true that evaluating a level of anger is guesswork. I've seen a range of anger in my career as a "Customer Engineer" for a major office equipment manufacturer. The one place I hated to go to work was a local county mental hospital. I was always concerned that they might not let me out again. In that place I occasionally saw some patients with uncontrollable rage, eyes bulging, sweating, swearing, screaming, struggling, totally out of control. It was a bit unnerving! Then the meds came and things calmed down a bit. The guy in the video looked to me more like he was trying to keep control of the situation, and intimidate the TV crew. He MIGHT have escalated to violence if the TV crew had resisted. He knew that he was doing wrong when he first displayed the pistol, and then hid it.

    Had I been there I would probably have been very concerned when he grabbed the gun out of his truck, and would have prepared to draw and fire my own sidearm

    I don't doubt that this would have been a justifiable shoot, especially when they had this bird on tape retrieving his gun from his truck.

    :shocked:
     
  19. Syclone538

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    Of course he does, but what you really need to do is say nothing, at all, other then that you need to go to the hospital, and from there call a lawyer.
     
  20. 01coltcolt

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    Basically its all about perception. What will you sell in court? "Sir, did you preceive you or you families life was in danger?"