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Would you allow your employees to CCW at work?

Discussion in 'Carry Issues' started by wjv, Aug 8, 2012.

  1. wjv

    wjv

    13,797
    1,220
    Jan 17, 2002
    Pacific NW
    If you owned a business, would you allow your employees to CCW at work?

    It’s real easy to say “sure I would”, but what about the downside.

    You either spent years building up your business to the point where it is today, or you spent hundreds of thousands of dollars (maybe millions) buying an existing business. Either way you have a LOT of your life invested in that business.
    Depending on your specific situation, that business might just represent

    - 100% of your family’s income
    - A large percentage of your retirement plan

    So will you allow all of that to be placed at risk by an employee that you might not actually know very well, who has a CCW permit?

    Example: Armed robbery. You own a convenience store an employee draws gun and fires 3 rounds at robber. Two hit the robber. One round hits the nice, twenty something, pregnant lady at the back of the store who was just buying some groceries. You get sued by the lady’s family. You get sued by the robber’s family. .

    Example: Employee has a drug dependency, or a mental illness that you are unaware of. One day the employee gets into an argument with another employee or a customer and draws his gun. Even if he doesn’t use the gun you still get sued by the other employee or the customer.

    Could make up examples all day long but I think all of you get the point. When you are the boss, and you allow others to carry at your business, you increase your potential liability. So if you owned a business, how would you deal with this?

    - Prohibit all employees to carry (the easy solution)?
    - Allow carry but buy an additional liability policy (expensive)?
    - Allow only certain employees to carry after you double check their background?
    - Insist that all employees who carry must take some sort of defensive training class first?
    - Other ???

    I’m wondering about these options because we are considering buying a business of some sort. One of the possibilities is a 24x7 gas station with a convenience store This would be a ~$600K investment plus another $1.7M if we want to also buy the property, opposed to leasing it. It has 6 or 7 employees that I know NOTHING about.

    So if you had $600K or $2.3M invested in a business and you had quit your day job to run the new business, would you let them carry if they wanted? Would you have a “no weapons” policy? Or would you have something in-between?
     
  2. SPIN2010

    SPIN2010 Searching ...

    1,781
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    Mar 14, 2010
    On the move ... again!
    Yes, I would and if I ever saw any weapons presented (out of the CCW position) for anything other than defense I would need a new employee for that position.
     


  3. youngdocglock

    youngdocglock

    896
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    Jun 28, 2012
    NH
    Hell yes i would. I CC at work. I've always CC'd. No matter where i've worked. Walmart, Aarons. Rent a center........i do it for my safety and the safety of my co-workers.

    I've also owned my own business and even had a nice sign in the window stating that most of my employees carried..........keeps the crooks on the OUTSIDE of my business.
     
  4. F350

    F350

    2,571
    523
    Feb 3, 2005
    The Wyoming Plains
    I was a partner in a company that installed and maintained business telephone systems (also did data networks paging etc) and employees were on the road A LOT, often over night. I encouraged all of the guys to get their CCWs and to be armed when in transit, it was prohibited to take their weapon into a customers location, except on construction sites with union contractors.

    Actually had a lawyer tell me it would be cheaper to have an employee killed than defend a lawsuit in the event of a shooting; because wokers compensation law limited damages if an employee is killed and would be paid by the state workers compensation fund. We carried extra liability insurance ($10 mil) and let the guys carry.
     
  5. youngdocglock

    youngdocglock

    896
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    Jun 28, 2012
    NH
    Very good choice! i would rather have a lawsuit on my hands then lose one person because they couldnt defend themselves. Money you can make back. You cant get a dead employee back. That simple.
     
  6. BlownFiveLiter

    BlownFiveLiter

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    Mar 24, 2011
    Chicagoland
    I would personally support it, but from a business perspective, I would have no policy in either direction. Concealed means concealed, and any policy which allows it would likely expose one to a ton of litigation, should one of the employees use the concealed weapon. I wish I could get CCW in IL to begin with!
     
  7. snakeman

    snakeman

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    0
    Jun 3, 2004
    Wichita, Ks
    Back in the day they said to comply with a robber because he would take the money and leave. Now a days it seems that doesn't happen. Robbery suspects seem to be more willing to use the weapon they are holding. I think I would give them the option to carry but would make them take some sort of class where at the end they have to demonstrate some proficiency with their weapon.


    snakeman
     
  8. youngdocglock

    youngdocglock

    896
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    Jun 28, 2012
    NH
    Last year i worked as a groundskeeper at a multi location hotel in Maine. The owner was former army and had a no weapons policy. Until i talked his wife into getting her CCW :-D One day he saw me printing * i ignored the policy because its a tourist trap and lots of crime down there*. and questioned me why i was carrying. After explaining my reasoning and showing him my CCW and all other certificates pertaining to weapons i've earned. He changed the policy to employees cant carry weapons except the groundskeeper haha.
     
  9. cloudbuster

    cloudbuster

    1,098
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    Mar 17, 2005
    I think you're asking for trouble doing that. I agree with BlownFiveLiter:

    Once you start setting CCW standards for your employees, you've knowingly inserted yourself into the process and are a much more ripe target for being held responsible for the consequences.

    Don't ask, don't tell. That's my policy. I'm not required by law to expressly forbid or monitor my employees' legal activities to shield myself from liability.
     
  10. Gunnut 45/454

    Gunnut 45/454

    12,129
    9
    Jun 20, 2002
    wjv

    Example: Armed robbery. You own a convenience store an employee draws gun and fires 3 rounds at robber. Two hit the robber. One round hits the nice, twenty something, pregnant lady at the back of the store who was just buying some groceries. You get sued by the lady’s family. You get sued by the robber’s family Answer: Robber shoots up the place anyway and you get sued anyway

    Example: Employee has a drug dependency, or a mental illness that you are unaware of. One day the employee gets into an argument with another employee or a customer and draws his gun. Even if he doesn’t use the gun you still get sued by the other employee or the customer. Answer: Not your fault! Do you not test employee's for drug use? Employee would be the criminal in this case. What law makes you libal for employee behavoir?


    Are you going to cover your employee's medical bills if you don't allow them to protect themselves! Carry life insurance for there loved ones if/when they die on the job?

    Or will you trust in and employ people who are trust wurthy. Your talking about what 10 employee's? What kind of buisiness owner will not take the time to get to know each one personnally?
     
  11. Hawkeye16

    Hawkeye16

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    Mar 19, 2012
    I would like to. But there is the issue of letting people go or firing them in a corporation the size that I work in that just makes letting the employees carry unsafe.


    Outdoor Hub mobile, the outdoor information engine
     
  12. FireForged

    FireForged Millenium #3936 Millennium Member

    4,287
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    Dec 25, 1999
    Rebel South
    I know plenty of people who have all the business sense in the world, are blessed with a near perfect work ethic, are accomodating, well met and law abiding... These same people are borderline idiots when it comes to anything else.

    If I were a business owner I would allow a employee to store anything they like in their personal vehicle but would not allow employee-ccw inside the physical office plant. It would be purely a business decision and would have nothing to do with my pro-gun views. Crafty lawyers always seem to be able to make the person with the biggest money bags, appear culpable in just about anything their employees do while on-duty.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2012
  13. youngdocglock

    youngdocglock

    896
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    Jun 28, 2012
    NH
    The state im in you HAVE to allow your employee to keep whatever they want in their vehicle :) if you discipline, fire or otherwise retaliate towards an employee who has a legal firearm in their car.........haha BIG FINES :)
     
  14. simotek

    simotek

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    Jul 29, 2012
    DC Area
    I would not have a policy for or against.
     
  15. FireForged

    FireForged Millenium #3936 Millennium Member

    4,287
    126
    Dec 25, 1999
    Rebel South
    Great! it sounds like a good thing. I would never disagree with what people choose to carry inside their personal vehicle as it has nothing to do with me.
     
  16. series1811

    series1811 Enforcerator. CLM

    I live in the deep south. I'm pretty sure that at least half of the people down here are armed all of the time. :supergrin:
     
  17. youngdocglock

    youngdocglock

    896
    1
    Jun 28, 2012
    NH
    My tag says NH. But im in very southern Maine. late last year our governor signed a bill into law that states the personal contents of an employees car are no concern of the employer. And anything an employer does against said employee for personal effects in their car is open for suit :-D
     
  18. LoadToadBoss

    LoadToadBoss IYAAYWOT

    3,487
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    Apr 24, 2008
    Northwest Louisiana
    I am the pastor at my church. All staff are permitted to CCW at work.
     
  19. mingaa

    mingaa

    835
    1
    Dec 3, 2011
    St. Louis, MO
    If I were heading that direction I'd do further research and seek more advice BUT I'm inclined to say that the legal right of an employee can stand on its own and by NOT addressing it in an employee policy manual some or more of the burden would stay with them were an incident to occur. That said anyone out of line carrying would have to be dealt with in a professional HR manner matching the offense.

    I've worked on employee manuals before and once you open a can of worms you have to deal with every foreseeable possibility. Last year I left a 501c3 that was in a unique working agreement with a County Park. The Park system allowed CCW - the 501c3 handbook prohibited any dangerous weapon. No one ever asked me what was in my car and I carried a Benchmade clipped in my pocket and a second in my briefcase. I was not shy about the knife - it was accepted as a tool. The 501c3 was in over 100 acres of park land much of it heavily wooded. Funny how the lines blur, eh?!
     
  20. Glock_9mm

    Glock_9mm

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    Jul 10, 2012
    California
    x2
    Scott