Wilderness Protection from Intruders

Discussion in 'Hunting, Fishing & Camping' started by Bluebearbevis, Feb 21, 2013.

  1. Seriously?

    Seriously? U.S.A.F. Ret.

    I'll second those who suggested the full-size 10mm, the Glock 20.

    Why carry anything but the best?

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  2. CanyonMan

    CanyonMan In The Saddle


    Your welcome !

    I think you should stick with your little .22 ! ;)


  3. Seriously?

    Seriously? U.S.A.F. Ret.

    Oh, yeah.......alternate the 10mm JHP with full metal jacket or hardcast flatnose or SWC.

    The Glock will usually digest anything in any combination. That's just one of the nice things about it.

    #23 Seriously?, Feb 25, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2013
  4. Thanks Seriously?

    All comments from the peanut gallery aside, I have received some valuable information from this post. I gotta say I am leaning toward the .44 Magnum in a "packable" short barrel version. From my first post onward where I mentioned bear, moose, but also Columbine and Aurora it should have been obvious that by Wilderness Intruders I was referring to both the urban and remote wilderness and both two and four legged creatures. However, for the record I reiterate that now. Seems the vote is about even between the 10 mm and the .44 mag. I like the "old school" look of a wheel gun, I shoot left handed and as was pointed out by one wiser than I on this subject, only the first couple of shots are going to count anyway, nobody is going to be able to unload a full magazine into a charging bear. Despite any misinterpretations about my feelings toward the Super Redhawk, I loved firing that beast which is another of the reasons I want my own. So saying, any thoughts there? On a side note, I've downgraded the Ruger to Monster Firearm, I just saw a .50 cal at the Tanner Gun Show, now that mf is a cannon!

    Have a great day,
  5. Originally from the Midwest too and am now in CO. I spend almost every summer weekend in the mountains - often with screaming, yelling, and laughing little kids. Bears and mountain lions and even coyotes are always on the back of my mind. Sidearm of choice is typically a Glock 20 with handloads. I've also carried a S&W 29 Mountain Gun in .44mag, but it generally gets left behind. It's heavier, the bullets are heavier, and it's LOUD if you have pull the trigger. (Without ear muffs they are all loud, don't get wrong, but revolvers leave my ears ringing for days.) Ballistically, the 10mm is not close to a .44mag - even with my Chuck Norris strong reloads, however the .44 mag out of a 4" barrel isn't that powerful either - especially when compared to a rifle. I like to think I can hold my own in the strength department, but recoil with full-power, 300 grain loads in a light weight .44 mag is BRUTAL.

    Here's my thinking... The 10mm is more than adequate for mountain lion, coyote, and 2 legged vermin, it's marginal for black bear (It's only downfall). The Glock is incredibly durable, easy to clean, relatively light, very reliable, and with just one spare magazine, I can have 30 rounds on me or in my pack. With my handloads it's accurate enough to split a bullet on an axe blade at 25 feet.

    The only advantages with the .44 mag mountain gun is that you can shoot .44 Specials out of it for practice or small game, and well, the obvious one, that it has significantly more power.

    I am very comfortable carrying the 10mm in Colorado. If Grizzlies were an issue...my choice would be significantly different.
  6. Bren

    Bren NRA Life Member

    Does this not make sense, or were there bears and mooses involved at Columbine and Aurora that I don't know about?
  7. Thanks Mountain10mm,

    And thanks for your patience everyone. If I seem undecided about this, it's because I am. Upon reflection, I would like to apologize to you also CowboyMan, don't attack your allies. There's the kicker, the 10 mm appears good enough for Michigan and Colorado, but not for Montana or Alaska. My experience with Black bears is don't get between a cub and its mother, don't keep food in your tent and the proverbial "play possum." I'm headed into back-country Glacier National Park this Summer by myself for a week and I can only afford 1 $500 to $600 dollar gun before I go. Therefore my latest questions about Taurus vs. used. Any thoughts?

    "Disagreement stems not from what is said, but how it's interpreted,"

    Hey Bren,
    Perfect sense when not taken out of context. The Bear and Moose live in the remote areas only accessible by foot from the line above, they were not involved in either of the shootings.

    #27 Bluebearbevis, Feb 25, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2013
  8. SDGlock23

    SDGlock23 Glockoholic

    In your price range, you might consider a Ruger Super Blackhawk .44 Mag or Blackhawk .45 Colt. They can be had for less than $500.

    As for Taurus, I know their price is appealing, but I'd stay away from them. I've owned several of their revolvers, and while they're not bad, they're only so-so in my book. However, in your price range I can't think of much else that is double action. If you're willing to go single action, get a Ruger.
  9. check out the mossberg 500 or remington 870 super shorty.
  10. CanyonMan

    CanyonMan In The Saddle


    Apology accepted.
    Stay Safe.

    #30 CanyonMan, Feb 26, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2013
  11. Right on CanyonMan,

    Even after I got your name wrong, you still accepted my apology, that's a double thumbs up. All things considered, for myself it seems a good used Smith and Wesson or Ruger .44 Magnum is the best option. Can't find a lot of good things to say about Taurus. The S&W "629 Mountain gun" w/ a 4" barrel is the one I'm looking at as far as power, accuracy, dependability, weight, price, etc... I'd go with the 329 for backpackability, but high price, maintenance and performance issues. Cabela's has the 629 "Outfitter" for $849-$899 regular price, but I bet I can find a better deal at the Tanner Gun Show.
    What would be "wear and tear to be wary of" in a used gun? Or should I post that as a new question?

    Thanks again everyone,

  12. Nothing wrong with a used gun...especially a .44mag - most of which are shot very little. Just be prudent about the condition of the gun, if it looks well taken care of the outside chances are the inside has been taken care of too. Green Mountain Guns (Wadsworth and Hamden) usually has good used gun prices. Gander Mountain's are ridiculously high. Finding a used Mountain Gun will take some time, have patience. You can also try several of the online classifieds for guns in Colorado. You might want to consider a regular S&W 4" 29 or 629 as the Mountain Gun was a limited run. (I don't think they are making it anymore so prices for a used Mountain Gun might be higher than a new 629.) The only difference between the Mountain Gun and 4" 29, is the barrel thickness. The Mountain Gun's barrel has a taper to it, saving some weight. Over the last year, I've seen several S&W 29/629's at Sportsman's Warehouse...I'm sure that's changed since November.

    Good luck to you.
  13. CanyonMan

    CanyonMan In The Saddle


    So whats in a name?! No worries...

    The list on what to look at on a used revolver can get pretty long, especially on a big bore, not knowing what abuse it's been through. Cylinder to forcing cone gap. Visible damage or cracks to forcing cone (that can be very hard to do without a maga flux) A look down the bore obviously, and at the crown, what shape its in. Is the cylinder in "time," when roated all the way around by either DA or SA, I do both.

    Cylinder tightness end to end movement, cylinder wobble when spun on the yoke out of the gun frame,(given this is a Smith or a gun with a swing out cylinder SA/DA). Does the hammer have wobble in it, does the hammer spring/main spring feel strong on the drop. fit and finish overal, (and remember, any one can use "flitz" on a SS gun to make it look new), and several ways to make a blued gun look new and unfired..

    Also check the cylinder latch. Check the cylinder notches for being "square across, or bent and mushy looking."

    Sights, front and back. Are the rear sights moved way over to one side? If so the gun 'may be' a lousy shooter, or someone does not know how to shoot it ! Usually asking questions can bring you "anythng you want to hear." I don't do that one much on anything I buy.

    Trigger pull/feel looking lintening to anything that just don't feel or sound or look right and all the above, is a "starting place.."

    Rugers will hold up longer under harder use, and stouter loads than a Smith will in the 44mags. If you intend to shoot alot and shoot full house loads, Ruger is the best bet here. Hands Down.

    I shoot full hose loads when I shoot my 44mags, other than the times I may use a 44special, but I have Ruger 44specials to do that in, so my 44mags, see full house use probably 95% or so, of my hand load shooting. I shoot about 99% Hard Cast lead at 21BHN (hardness). I load the 250's and 275grs to 24.0grs H110 (if your a hand loader). This is a moose, and kill anything that walks load, (seriously).

    Even in the Smith 4" M629, I have shot hundreds of these through it, but it's time to stop. The Rugers just keep going. They, (the Rugers) will one day all start needing some tweaking with a constant diet of full power loads, but no where near as soon as the Smith will.

    I pack every day on the ranch, a Ruger Vaquero 44mag/or 45LC, 4 5/8" barrel, which ever I am in the mood for. Hunting I use these, or a RBH 5 1/2" or a SBH 7 1/2" . But I have shot the Vaquero's for so long and hard, I can usually get buy with those out to 100yds.

    I do understand that most folks want something lighter. As I said, I was a guide for a quarter century, and seen about everything I guess. And nothing wrong with "light weight," if a man can handle it. Most folks don't shoot "practically all the time" and cannot do so, and I understand that. But out here we been shooting all the time since we were little kids, and load our own and keep it up..

    One reason I can tell ya the Smith's are good in a M629 4", but if ya don't know how to work on them, and your going to really shoot a great deal of full house loads, it may not be the gun for you. If you are going to shoot mid-range loads and 44specials through it, and some full house every now in then to "stay in shape," then the 629 will give you years of good service, probably a life time.

    Well, gotta go here. Just throwin this out at ya.

    Here are some pics you can look at as well.
    As for accuracy, the "classic 25yds," as a guage, mine are mostly touching each other on all 6 shots. Won't own a bad shooting gun. ha.

    I don't know your full intent with what your looking for here, but if it is for bears and moose and folks, I do suggest as I have already, and several others have as well, the Smith 629 for "lighter than a Ruger packin," and the Rugers for the better built guns. I love SA, and am not a DA fan, but the Smith 629 is a sweet gun for the guy just trekking off into the out back every now and then.

    I also reccomend it be stuffed with at least 250gr Hard Cast Bullets, if ya don't hand load, look at Buffalo Bore bullets. Pack the hardest hitters you can, and use a few for practice of course and the medium range loads for most of your practice and the gun will be/should be fine. I do not reccomend the Taurus, in this caliber....

    Good luck to ya !







    Can't get em' all on here, but this will give ya an idea of what and how I've been packin here, or in the high lonesome. (hand gun wise).

    Of course my purpose was not really ever hiking, but I been afoot in the high country plenty enough to know this method, these guns/equipment, have served me well, and never been a burden, and I got plenty of horse power for whatever I need them for. You may consider the 45LC in a Ruger BH at 4 5/8" like the one (black one in the holster) above pic. A tad lighter than SBH, and has a heck of a thump on anything walking, anywhere, loaded properly...

    Again, good luck.

  14. Zombie Steve

    Zombie Steve Decap Pin Killa

    I have no qualms carrying a .357 mag here on the front range in CO. Use appropriate loads (IMHO, 158 grains and up). A 686 is probably the easiest for me on backpack trips. Day hikes or car camps I'm usually going to bring a little more horsepower - .45 Colt Blackhawk with hot loads or a .44 mag N frame or Super Blackhawk. Snappy with 4" barrels, but I'm usually using handloads that are not full power. A 240 lswc going 1,150 is plenty for this stretch of the Rockies. Never had a problem with Black Bear. You talk to them and they just run away.

    I spent some time in Glacier last year. Highest concentration of Griz in the lower 48. Most of 'em been sprayed at one time or another, so some bear mace is not a bad idea. I took the .44 Super Blackhawk with some full power cast 240 lswc's (same bullet I mentioned earlier, but driven to 1,300 fps from the 4-5/8" barrel).

    Kinda fun watching those big SOB's getting drunk on fermented choke cherries.
  15. Excellent information everyone,

    I'll print out your "guide" and take it with me CanyonMan.

    You gotta love Denver Metro Mountain10MM, between the gun shops, pawn shops, and gun shows here I'm sure I can find what I'm looking for. The friend whose Ruger Super Redhawk .44 Magnum I shot picked his up used (maybe shot once) for $500 at the Tanner, although over a year ago now. I saw a Cabela's 629 online for $600 yesterday, but the seller wasn't licensed.

    Sure I want it to be "capable of," but I also want to fart around just shooting the darn thing. Have fun. God willing, the situation where I actually have to use it will never arrive.

    Another friend has a reloader, so I'll be able to do that too. Have to buy the right sized die(?), and materials, of course, but waaay cheaper and environmentally conscious to boot.

    What about those shot gun type rounds for clay pigeons or small game?

    Good Day All,

    P.S. Zoombie Steve, haven't you heard that joke about how to tell the difference between Black Bear and Grizzly scat?
    #36 Bluebearbevis, Feb 28, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2013
  16. Al Czervik

    Al Czervik My arm!

    In CO a G20 or G29 works for me.
  17. Zombie Steve

    Zombie Steve Decap Pin Killa

    Grizzly poop smells like peppers and has little bells in it?

    I did take a .44 mag in addition to the spray...

  18. Hey again everyone,

    Back to the "seasonal layoff" routine from my job after an 18 hr. shift Sun.-Mon. and another 11 Wed. plowing sidewalks with the ATV, don't want to spend all day watching the idiot box. Although arguably, the smartphone may be the new idiot box.

    Thanks for the tip railfancwb, I'll be checkin' that site, but I heard there were locking(?) issues with the 329, and Al, that's probably the way I'll go with my second handgun purchase. I think the gen4 has some reversible something or other so the spent cartridge spits out to the left for us Southpaws?

    I'm returning to Glacier this August to do some Backcountry hiking and contemplation alone for a week. The last time I was there was 4 years ago when we scattered my Mom's ashes to the wind on the Highline Trail, her favorite place in the world. I have since found out that this was illegal, but "ignorance is bliss." We were a group of 9 then which makes a big difference. For now, I can only afford the one, so I've narrowed my choices down to a used short barreled S&W or Ruger .44 Magnum made of good ol' American steel. I'm willing to carry the extra pound hiking vs. all the other time practicing with it. What the heck, it might even turn out to be a good turkey or rabbit gun?

    One is smaller, has pits and bits of beetle shell in it and smells like nuts and berries. The other is much larger, has little brass and silver bells in it and smells like pepper spray.


    It originally came from a Bear Warning sign posted in British Colombia and I don't think it was a joke. Give me some time and I think I can find it in my email archive.
    #40 Bluebearbevis, Feb 28, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2013

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