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Why the hate?

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by RWE, Oct 3, 2012.

  1. Zombie Steve

    Zombie Steve Decap Pin Killa

    May 31, 2007
    Old Colorado City
    Easy, Hound Dog. You quoted the guy I quoted (and I somehow screwed it up), but it says my name. I'm just saying it's a bad idea for magnums...

    Anyone what wants to push a ski boat with a trolling motor was probably asleep in physics class.

  2. Zombie Steve

    Zombie Steve Decap Pin Killa

    May 31, 2007
    Old Colorado City
    ...and the label sucks.

  3. Colorado4Wheel


    Nov 2, 2006
    It's generally considered very good in .40. Careful you might like it.
  4. Colorado4Wheel


    Nov 2, 2006
    As opposed to Unique, WSF, Solo 1000 or any number of stupid names.

    Maybe we should call it "Grandmaster Gun Destroyer"
  5. Zombie Steve

    Zombie Steve Decap Pin Killa

    May 31, 2007
    Old Colorado City
    I'm writing a letter.
  6. shotgunred

    shotgunred local trouble maker

    Mar 1, 2008
    Washington (the state)
    I go through several pounds of it a year. It is not that we all hate it. But it is not a good powder for new reloaders to cut their teeth on. The negatives noted above just out way the positives when there are more "forgiving" powders for a new reloader to start with.
  7. 8Ring


    Feb 24, 2004
    One other plus for Titegroup is that it meters very consistently. Another "negative" is that it is temperature sensitive, although probably not more than most other powders. A "positive" is that it is less position sensitive than other powders in revolver cartridges.

    I use it only in 9mm with 124gr and 147gr jacketed bullets.

  8. fredj338


    Dec 22, 2004
    So do all spherical or ball powders. As far as position sensative, it better not be, it occupies less volume per charge than almost any other powder. The ideal powder would be one that fills any case 3/4 full & give the desired vel w/o pushing top pressures. Obviously that does NOT exist, but it could be made. The powder manuf don't really care as long as everyone keeps buying what they are making.
    If I ineherited 100# of TG, I would trade it off for 50# of just about anything else, well maybe ot Clays or BE either. Yes, I am a hater, then again, I don't make up bunnyfart loads often & that is what TG is really good for, minor loads in any service caliber.
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2012
  9. VV N320 has many of the qualities (yes Fred, qualities... :)) of TG and I often get on this forum and expound the virtues of N320 - and perhaps I've found yet another.

    I took 30 identical (bunny fart, 147 gr) loads (my usual load) and loaded up 3 mags of 10 rounds each and shot them through a chrono. Before doing so however, I placed one mag on the dashboard of my truck in Florida's direct sun on a hot 92 degree day, one mag in a Ziploc, sitting on ice in a cooler, and the third I took into the air conditioned clubhouse for 2 hours and had lunch and conversation.

    Two hours later I walked across the road to shoot and chrono these rounds. Although I didn't measure the surface temps of the rounds, I think the estimated temps are pretty close.

    Average 10-rnd results at each cartridge temp w/ N320, 147 gr:

    45 deg
    Ave Vel 888
    ES 48
    SD 18

    75 deg
    Ave Vel 889
    ES 54
    SD 19

    100+ deg
    Ave Vel 885
    ES 38
    SD 12

    A statistically insignificant difference from 45 to 100+ degrees with N320 and no positive temperature correlation.

    Last edited: Oct 4, 2012
  10. fredj338


    Dec 22, 2004
    VV powders have a good rep for being very consistant. The downside is avaliablity & quite a cost diff. Curious Sardg, what positive qualities do you find in TG that are not found in several other powders? I have seen none, so the negs outway the maybe one pos of using TG, it's cost.
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2012
  11. Well, okay... maybe not the long list of qualities often associated with VV, but when I got my press and wanted to get started, TG was very available (at my club), reasonably priced, and I was able to find a lot of recipes from other competitors. TG is so common for competition that I actually found several fellow competitors who used the MG bullet and Starline brass that I eventually settled on.

    I only ever used somewhat less than the first single pound I bought, before going with 320 - but I share the same OCD that I've seen Richard talk about, so never had a problem.
  12. unclebob


    Oct 14, 2000
    Mary Esther FL
    Not speaking for Kitty. But people load for different reasons. So called bunny fart loads for competition that do not have a PF. I’m in that category. Some people load in the middle or just above. And others load as close to or at max as they can. After doing a lot of testing with different powders using 135 and 147gr X-Treme plated bullets. TiteGroup and VV N320 for what I have been able to find works the best for my application. Accuracy, perceived recoil, and speed of the slide. With the same load that will work in 6 different Glocks.
    Granted TiteGroup is probably not the best powder for a new reloader and probably some more experienced reloaders. But if you use it as intended light to light medium loads. It works great. If you get stupid with it or any other powder that it is not designed for and Blow up a gun it’s the reloaders fault and not the powder. For me and others that I know, It has worked great. If VV N320 was not so hard to find and in stock and did not cost so much. I would probably going back to using it.
    Also TiteGroup is the powder that is being used by me and the 4 other people I travel and shoot GSSF matches with. Only one has blown up a gun and it was not loaded with TiteGroup.
  13. Although GSSF doesn't have a PF requirement, I wanted one single (9 mil) load for GSSF, IDPA, and Steel. The 320 load I use has a PF of ~130 to satisfy IDPA requirements and is a wonderfully soft-shooter in every stock Glock I own. (which is all of Glock's 9 mils).

    I also think that the top two powders for this requirement are TG and 320 - both rather high in the burn rate table, and both having a limited load range and both somewhat susceptible to user error.
  14. Hoser

    Hoser Ninja

    May 22, 2002
    N320 is the best powder I have found for 9x19 and 40 for my uses. However it is a mother to find sometimes and when you do it is friggin expensive.

    So I will continue to use TG and I am happy with it. Between 20 and 30,000 rounds a year with.
  15. sourdough44


    Jul 23, 2007
    I like it & have never had problems. You just have to measure & charge properly.
  16. sicbstrd


    Aug 7, 2008
    San Diego
    Oh I like that name :rofl: " Grandmaster Gun Destroyer".

    I use it for my 9mm a bunch, I like it
  17. Zombie Steve

    Zombie Steve Decap Pin Killa

    May 31, 2007
    Old Colorado City
    Surely that must mean 200-300 guns destroyed annually.

  18. WiskyT

    WiskyT Malcontent

    Jun 12, 2002
    North Carolina
    You only use one pound a year and you worry about cost and availability?
  19. jlavallee


    Jul 15, 2006
    Reno, NV
    Wow, getting 20,000 to 30,000 rounds from a pound... Talk about bunny fart.:rofl:

    I use Titegroup and like it. You have to be careful but hell, it is available and ecnomical. I already keep a couple of handgun and rifle powders on hand and I'm not going to bulk buy so every combination has a 3/4 case filling volume. If you're not ready to be careful, I'd think you might be best off buying ammo.
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2012
  20. tnpatriot


    Mar 3, 2009
    I shoot lead and I like Red Dot for 44 spl & 38 spl because it has red dots in it and the name and label is cool. I like WST for 45acp, and WSF for 9mm, but they don't have red dots or a cool label. I tried Titegroup in the past but did not like it because of all the reasons stated in the previous posts.