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Why is it so hard to admit Atheism is a Religion?

Discussion in 'Religious Issues' started by Cavalry Doc, Nov 7, 2010.

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    Mar 8, 2010
    Well Doc lets start with the A's

    Aabit: Egyptian. Goddess of song, music, and the arts.

    Aah: Egyptian. God of the moon, responsible for the creation of the Egyptian calendar, which has 30 days per month and is 12 months long. Patron of the student or learner.

    Abarta: Celtic. A member of the Tuatha Dé Danann ("People of the goddess Danu") an Irish race of gods, founded by the goddess Danu. These gods, who originally lived on 'the islands in the west', had perfected the use of magic. Abarta is associated with teamwork, and the destructive nature of jealousy.

    Acat: Mayan. God of tatooers.

    Accasbel: Celtic. An early God of meade or wine, thought to have created the first tavern or pub. Associated with the wine harvest.

    Achiyalatopa: North American (Zuni). A powerful celestial monster who hurls feathers made of flint knives.

    Achtland: Celtic. Queen goddess infamous for her displeasure in what she found available to her among human men. When she was approached by one of the Tuatha Dé Danann (a giant from the faery realm), she fell in love with him. She is associated with magic and sex.

    Addanc: Celtic. A primordial giant/god/lake monster described alternately as resembling a crocodile, beaver or dwarf-like creature, and is sometimes said to be a demon. Associated with erasing unwanted events or persons from one's mind.

    Adekagagwaa: North American (Iroquois). The spiritual embodiment of summer, who rests in the southern skys during the winter months.

    Aditi: Indian. Mother of the celestial gods, the synthesis of all things. Associated with mystic speech, space, consciousness, the past, the future, and fertility.

    Adroa: Central African. God of law, social order, and death. Depicted as tall, his good and bad aspects are shown as two half bodies: the evil one being short and coal black while his good aspect is tall and white.

    Adsullata: Celtic. A continental river goddess, associated with hot springs, solar magic and purification.

    Aerten: Celtic. Goddess of fate who ruled over the outcome of war between several Celtic clans. Her symbol was the double-bladed axe, and she was associated with both overcoming enemies, and peace.

    Aesun: Celtic. Creation god whose name means "to be."

    Aeval: Celtic. The Fairy Queen of Thomond in Irish mythology; held a midnight court to determine if husbands were satisfying their wives' sexual needs or not. Associated with sex, lust, wisdom, and magic.

    Agdistis: Greek. A powerful hermaphroditic daemon; chaotic, neither good nor evil, but impossible to control, containing all of the powers of creation within his/her body and using these powers to wreak havoc.

    Agni: Indian. God with three forms: fire, lightning and the sun. He is ever-young, because the fire is re-lit every day, yet he is also immortal.

    Agrona: Celtic Goddess of slaughter, war, and carnage.

    Ah Puch: Mayan. The God of death and King of Metnal, the underworld. He was depicted as a skeleton or corpse adorned with bells, sometimes the head of an owl.

    Ahsonnutli: North American (Navajo). Hermaphroditic deity who helped create the sky and the earth. He produced four giants to hold up the the sky, one in each corner: north, south, east, and west.

    Ahura Mazda: Persian. The sky god of order, creator of heaven and earth and upholder of asa (rightness, truth) and opposer of Ahriman (the principle of evil).

    Aibell: Celtic. Fairy goddess whose played a magic harp which human ears could not hear or else the eavesdropper would soon die. Associated with music, stones and leaves, protection, and ecological magic.

    Aibheaog: Celtic. Goddess of fire whose healing powers were effective against toothache. Associated with midsummer well rituals.

    Aife: Celtic. A warrior goddess and queen of the Isle of Shadow. She commanded a legion of fierce horsewomen, and was not vulnerable to magic. Associated with general knowledge, protection, path-working, and teaching.

    Aimend: Celtic. Sun goddess thought to be daughter of the king of the region known as Corco Loidhe.

    Aine of Knockaine: Celtic. Moon goddess associated with the summer solstice, cattle, and crops.

    Airmid: Celtic. Goddess of the healing arts and medicine, associated with family loyalty, healing, learning, and inspiration to craftsmen.

    Airseku: North American (Huron). The Great Spirit god, called upon when threatened or in times of urgent need.

    Aker: Egyptian. God of the horizon; one of the earliest gods worshipped. Guardian of the entrance and exit to the underworld.

    Akka: Finno-Ugrian. Goddess helpful for pregnant women, and after a birth, a woman would eat a special porridge dedicated to her.

    Aktunowihio: North American (Cheyenne). Subterranean earth mother; the soul of the earth.

    Akuj: Kenyan. God of divination.

    Ala: Nigerian. Also known as Ale or Ane, she was a popular Earth Mother, creator goddess and Queen of the Dead. Associated with morality, oaths, community laws, and harvests.

    Alberich: Germanic. A legendary sorcerer, king of the elves and dwarfs, guardian of treasures including Tarnkappe, a cape of invisibility.

    Albion: Celtic. Son of a forgotten sea god who was said to rule the Celtic world. He may have been part of a lost creation myth as his name is the most ancient name for Great Britain.

    Alisanos: Celtic. A local fertility god in Gaul, worshipped in what are now the Côte-d'Or in Burgundy and at Aix-en-Provence. May have been associated with mountain-ash and rowan trees.

    Allah: Arab. The Prophet Muhammad declared Allah the one and only god (of the Islam) in the 7th century CE. In pre-Islamic times, Allah was the supreme creator-god of the Arabs. The goddesses Allat, Manat, and al-Uzza were considered to be his daughters.

    Almha: Celtic. Goddess of the Tuatha De Danann about whom little is known today. A southern Irish hill was named after her.

    Ama-no-Uzume: Japanese. Fertility goddess of dawn and revelry in the Shinto religion.

    Amaterasu: Japanese. A sun goddess and perhaps the most important Shinto deity, born from the left eye of Izanagi as he purified himself in a river and went on to become the ruler of the Higher Celestial Plain.

    Amatsu-Kami: Japanese. The gods of heaven (distinguished from the gods of earth).

    Amaunet: Egyptian. Mother goddess who breathes new life into things with her northern winds. Her name means "The Hidden One," and she is portrayed as a snake or a snake-head on which the crown of Lower Egypt rests.

    Ambisagrus: Celtic. A weather god later equated with the Roman Jupiter. Associated with magic, leadership, and climate changes.

    Amen: Egyptian. "Great Father" god whose name means "the hidden one"; associated with the wind, fertility, sex, and agriculture.

    Ament: Egyptian. Goddess of the Underworld who greeted all newly dead with bread and water. If they ate and drank, they were not allowed to return to the land of the living.

    Ami: Egyptian. God of fire.

    Amida-nyorai: Japanese. An aspect of the Buddha, associated with forgiveness and protection.

    Ami Neter: Egyptian. Singing god of the winds.

    Ami Pi: Egyptian. A lion god.

    Amitolane: North American (Zuni). God of rainbows.

    Amu: Egyptian. God of the dawn.

    Amun: Egyptian. God of air, the breath of life, he gradually rose to become one of the most important deities in ancient Egypt, before fading into obscurity.

    Amutnen: Egyptian. Goddess of cows that provide milk.

    An: Sumerian. A progenitor god who, long with Ninhursag, probably created the other gods in the Sumerian pantheon. His wife may have been Nammu.

    Anat: Sumerian. Called the Lady of Heaven and Mistress of all gods; a wild and furious warrior.

    Anayaroli: The Temne, (west African). A river demon associated with wealth.

    Ancasta: Celtic. Goddess worshipped in Roman Britain, possibly associated with the river Itchen.

    Andraste: Celtic. War goddess invoked to fight against the Roman occupation of Britain. Associated with overcoming enemies.

    Andvari: Norse. A dwarf who lived underneath a waterfall and had the power to change himself into a fish at will. He had a magical ring named Andvarinaut, which helped him become wealthy. Also known as Alberich.

    Angpetu Wi: North American (Dakota). God of the sun.

    Angus Mac Og: Celtic. God of love, youth and poetic inspiration. He is said to have four birds symbolizing kisses flying about his head (whence, it is believed, the xxxx's symbolizing kisses at the end of lovers' letters come from.)

    Anhur: Egyptian. God of the hunt and of war; associated with the sky and sun.

    Anpao: North American (Dakota). A two-faced deity who represents the spirit of the dawn.

    Anqet: Egyptian. Water goddess of the island of Sahal; associated with lust, intelligence, medicine, protection, death and cemeteries.

    Anshar: Akkadian. A sky god, husband of his sister Kishar. Together, they might represent heaven and earth.

    Anu: Sumerian. A sky-god, the god of heaven, lord of constellations, king of gods, spirits and demons, residing in the highest heavenly regions. He had the power to judge those who had committed crimes; created the stars as soldiers to destroy the wicked.

    Anubis: Egyptian. A jackal-headed god associated with mummification and the afterlife in ancient Egyptian mythology.

    Ao: Chinese. Four dragon gods, each overseeing a portion of the earth and sea. There names were Ao Ch'in, Ao Kuang, Ao Jun and Ao Shun.

    Apep: Egyptian. An evil demon, the deification of darkness and chaos; associated with darkness, death, eclipses and the underworld.

    Aphrodite: Greek. Goddess of love, lust, and beauty. Often depicted with the sea, dolphins, doves, swans, pomegranates, apples, myrtle, rose and lime trees, clams, scallop shells and pearls. Same as the Roman goddess Venus.

    Apit: Egyptian. Goddess of nursing mothers.

    Apollo: Greek. God of light and the sun, prophecy and truth, music, archery, poetry, and the arts, medicine and healing; able to bring ill-health and deadly plague as well as cure disease.

    Apsu: Sumerian. Ruler of gods and underworld oceans; source of lakes, springs, rivers, wells, and other sources of fresh water. Father of Lahmu, Lahamu, Anshar and Kishar. Killed by Ea.

    Apuat: Egyptian. God who guides souls to their final resting place.

    Aput: Egyptian. Messinger god.

    Arawn: Celtic (Wales). King of the otherworld realm of Annwn, ruled over the dead. Associated with reincarnation, spirit contact, revenge, war, terror, magical names, and strengthening friendships.

    Ard Greimme: Celtic (Scotland). Sun god associated with magic.

    Ares: Greek. Often referred to as the Olympian god of warfare, he is more accurately the god of savage warfare, or bloodlust, or slaughter personified. Son of Zeus and Hera; savior of cities and father of victory.

    Ardwinna: Celtic (Britain). Eponymous goddess of the Ardennes Forest and region, represented as a huntress riding a boar. Later assimilated into the Gallo-Roman mythology of goddess Diana.

    Ariadne: Greek and Celtic. The only Greek goddess known to have been worshipped in Celtic Gaul. In Greek mythology, she was daughter of King Minos of Crete and his queen, Pasiphaë, daughter of Helios, the Sun-titan. She aided Theseus in overcoming the Minotaur and later became the consort of the god Dionysus.

    Arianrhod: Celtic (Wales). Associated with fertility, beauty, and reincarnation, she was daughter of Dôn and sister of Gwydion and Gilfaethwy. In the Mabinogi her uncle Math ap Mathonwy is the King of Gwynedd, and during the course of the story she gives birth to two sons, Dylan Eil Ton and Lleu Llaw Gyffes, through magical means.

    Arnamentia: Celtic. Goddess of spring waters who was once a minor solar deity. Associated with purification and healing.

    Artaius: Celtic. God of sheep and cattle herders from Celtic Gaul. Later, the Romans identified him with Mercury. Associated with cattle and sheep.

    Artemis: Greek. Daughter of Zeus and Leto, twin sister of Apollo, she was a hunter and a virgin, the goddess of forests, hills, and transitions -- including childbirth. Often depicted as carrying a bow and arrows, deer and cypress were sacred to her. Called Diana by the Romans.

    Artio: Celtic. Goddess of the bear, worshipped at Berne, Switzerland. Goddess of fertility and wildlife, usually depicted as being surrounded by animals and full baskets. Associated with geode stones, the bear, claws and teeth; also with fertility, courage, and strength.

    Aryaman: Indian. God whose name name signifies "bosom friend," but is literally "noble one." Chief of the manes, the Milky Way is supposed to be his path.

    Asa: Kenyan. Father God, "the strong lord," who was associated with mercy, help, and surviving the impossible.

    Asase: West African. Fertility goddess responsible for the creation of humans and receiver of them at death; associated with cultivation and the harvest.

    Asbit: Egyptian. Goddess of fire.

    Asclepius: Greek. A demigod of medicine and healing, represents the healing aspect of the medical arts. Apollo's son.

    Aseb. Egyptian. God of fire.

    Ashkit: Egyptian. Wind goddess.

    Ashu: Egyptian. Wind goddess.

    Asvins: Indian. Goddess of the clouds, symbolizing the shining of sunrise and sunset, appearing in the sky before the dawn in a golden chariot, bringing treasures to men and averting misfortune and sickness.

    Ataentsic: North American (Iroquois). Sky goddess who fell to the earth at the time of creation. Associated with marriage, childbirth, and feminine pursuits.

    Aten: Egyptian. The sun god; originally an aspect of Ra. He became the deity of the monotheistic religion of Amenhotep IV, who took the name Akhenaten.

    Athena: Greek. Goddess of war, wisdom, and crafts; daughter of Zeus, and Metis. The patron goddess of Athens, offering the gift of the olive tree. Same as Roman goddess Minerva.

    Athirat (Asherah): Canaanite. Equated with the Milky Way, she was goddess of the sea, particularly along the shore, of the fertility of humanity, flocks, and crops, and of great wisdom.

    Atho: Finno-Ugrian. Horned god associated with the seas and water.

    Athtart: Phonecian. Connected with fertility, sexuality, passion, and war, her symbols were the lion, the horse, the sphinx, the dove, and a star within a circle indicating the planet Venus. Pictorial representations often show her naked.

    Atlas: Greek. Leader of the Titans who fought against the gods; punished by Zeus to carry the vault of the sky on his shoulders, in order to to prevent the two from resuming their primordial embrace.

    Atum: Egyptian. Deity considered the 'complete one'; the finisher of the world, all things being made of his flesh.

    Aua: Egyptian. God of gifts and gift giving.

    Auit: Egyptian. Goddess of children and nurses.

    Awonawilona: North American (Zuni). Sun god, creator of the sky, earth, and oceans.

    Each one of them agnostic or atheist?
  2. Cavalry Doc

    Cavalry Doc MAJ (USA Ret.)

    Feb 22, 2005
    Republic of Texas
    So, you took me up on my offer to make up my response for me. That's interesting.

    I am uncommitted and uncaring. If you want to believe the FSM is a deity and presented himself in a parody, that honestly is just fine with me.

    But to criticize one for not caring enough to have an opinion to your hypothetical situation doesn't change anything I have said in this thread about atheism.

  3. Cavalry Doc

    Cavalry Doc MAJ (USA Ret.)

    Feb 22, 2005
    Republic of Texas
    Unless you have some convincing proof one way or the other, I'm comfortably agnostic.

    But, still, belief in any of them is a religion. Belief that none of them possibly could have existed, A to Z and those yet unnamed, is also a religion.

    Whether or not this just happened or was made is fundamental. There really is no proof one way or the other. Strong belief one way or the other is a religious belief.
    Last edited: May 10, 2012
  4. juggy4711

    juggy4711 Nimrod Son

    Sep 20, 2006
    Galveston County, TX
    I believe in there is something I choose to call God, but that's it. No worship, no dogma, no required or forbidden behaviors. No personal relationships, no prayer, no anything besides I believe there something called God that is for lack of better words the cause or reason there is something rather than nothing. How is that a religion?

    By your definition, every belief based on faith no matter what the subject, is a religion. For something to be a religion it etymologically requires more than just belief based on faith.

    I believe the Sun will rise tomorrow but there is no proof that it will. Based on prior evidence I can be reasonable sure it will and have faith that it will do so. Is my belief that it will a religion?
  5. Cavalry Doc

    Cavalry Doc MAJ (USA Ret.)

    Feb 22, 2005
    Republic of Texas
    Your belief that their is a deity, is theism. It is a religious belief.

    There is no need to participate in a ceremony, congregation, or follow a particular practice for it to be a religious belief. If you believe there is a god, and you're cool with the idea, that's cool with me.

    The sun will probably rise tomorrow, from our perspective, unless it doesn't. But of course the earth spins, the sun doesn't really rise over the earth.

    Belief in a deity is a religious belief. Belief than no deity has existed is another religious belief.

    Both are perfectly OK.
  6. ksg0245


    Feb 28, 2008
    Evidence of uncaused events: Casimir effect, Quantum fluctuation.

    Evidence of deities: ...

    It does if the deity is required to violate physical laws.

    Like quantum fluctuation.

    Do you chose to believe in gravity?

    There is evidence something happened, and evidence things can happen without cause.

    There is no evidence of deities.

    You chose to punt.

    You're free to make that claim, but it's wrong.

    It appears not.
  7. ksg0245


    Feb 28, 2008
    Yes, it's your "cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith." Kind of like the system of belief you hold to with ardor and faith that atheism is a religion.

    Of course, atheism isn't "belief that none of them possibly could have existed" for anyone but you.

  8. Cavalry Doc

    Cavalry Doc MAJ (USA Ret.)

    Feb 22, 2005
    Republic of Texas
    Uhhh, from your link:
    "the Casimir effect and the Casimir–Polder force are physical forces arising from a quantized field."

    If you can measure an event, but can't find what initiated the event, that does not mean there was no cause. It means you haven't found it yet.

    On quantum fluctuation, anything that can be described with this:
    has a cause. Nothing would be on one side of the "=" sign otherwise.

    Did they teach you that there was no cause for these phenomena in physics class, or atheist class?

    It all depends on your interpretation. Beginning with a forgone conclusion when examining evidence is a scientific breach of ethics.

    Some have looked as scientific laws, and found proof of a god's existence.

    My belief, is that there isn't enough objective evidence one way or the other.

    The physical laws as defined by your limited understanding of them, or all the physical laws?

    What many people used to think was magic or supernatural stuff, has turned out to be explainable. If a deity appeared before you, and turned you into a frog, that would occur through a process, that if you knew about it enough, would be understandable. No matter how far fetched it sounds, if it happens, it would be done within the laws of nature, it would just be a huge surprise to both of us, but if it can happen, then it would be the nature of the situation.

    Which is like using markings on bullets to prove that eagles can fly faster than pigeons.

    Do you know how much a pound of tea costs in central china?

    What does gravity have to do with anything? Unless you are attempting to illustrate that you believe only in what you have personally perceived, and nothing else. Do you believe in neutrinos? Ever seen one, or held one in your hand? Someone probably told you they exist, and you simply believed that they did. That fits in your comfort zone, and deities do not.

    That sounds like a choice to me.

  9. So what?

    Honestly, take a graduate level research course. You will learn that its nearly impossible to prove anything. You can't prove you won't be struck by lightening the next time you walk out the door. That's why researchers talk about probability.

    OK, this gets confusing here so stay with me. Researchers start with a hypothesis. The hypothesis is what they believe. Since they can't prove their hypothesis is true, they attempt to prove that the probability of what they don't believe (the null hypothesis) is so small that what they believe is probably true. They will give you the probability that something is not true. For example, a probability of .05 is a 5 out 100 chance that the null hypothesis is not true. This does not mean the hypothesis is true. It means there is a 5% chance it is not false.

    There's no reliable data on the existence of God so proving or disproving the hypothesis that God exists is impossible. One more time, the fact that something can't be disproven does not mean it is true. In fact, the only logically sound position is to assume it is probability not true until evidence suggests that it's probably not untrue. The existence of God is a philosophical question. It lends itself to endless discussion but does not lend itself to the scientific method because, so far, it cannot be proven untrue.

    Once again, because people tend to ignore this salient point, the fact that something cannot be disproven does not mean it's true. You can't prove the wind is not disembodied spirits flying around, but the best evidence suggests otherwise. You can't prove evil spirits are trying to get into your brain when you sneeze, but best evidence suggests otherwise.

    This issue really needs to be put to bed. It's a nonargument for people who understand the arguments surrounding the question, "How do we know what we know is true?". Discussing it with people who don't understand these arguments and won't take time lo learn them and consider their implications is a waste of time. I can't teach a graduate level research course in one post and I'm not going to invest the effort necessary to do so on-line unless I'm paid for it. If you want to know more about this, start with Karl Popper and the Vienna Circle.
    Last edited: May 11, 2012
  10. Geko45

    Geko45 Smartass Pilot CLM

    Nov 1, 2002
    Expanding on this point, most people don't ever stop to think that almost nothing that we think we "know" can actually be definitely proven. As Muscogee said, there is always a small probability that things aren't as they appear. But with most things, this probability is so low as to not be meaningful in day to day life.

    Take gravity for instance. If you ask me to prove gravity then I'll grab a rock and drop it from shoulder height and we will all watch it go thud against the ground and shake our heads, "Yep, that's gravity". But maybe the earth accelererated rapidly upward at that moment? Maybe I was hallucianting and the rock is just floating there? Maybe there is no rock at all? Maybe there is no gravity?

    I can't definitely disprove any these fanciful scenarios (well, maybe the first one), but at the same time it would be silly of me to give them any real credence. This is what athiests mean when they concede that god can't be disproven. We know god does not exist because all availbale evidence indicates it's highly unlikely, but there is always the possibility that some of the more abstract metaphysical arguments might actually be true. However, that doesn't mean we should give them serious consideration either.

    Take my "proof" that god does not exist. I presented it several times trying to make a point and none of the theists here ever picked up on it (eventually it was Artifical Grape that took up the challenge). The properties of the christian god are not possible given our understanding of physics. The theists counter with transcedence, but they can't prove transcedence. I can't disprove it either, but I can say that everything we do know indicates that transcedence is highly unlikely. So much so that it merits no serious consideration. Thus, inductively, I conclude that there is no god.

    Or to say it differently, I am just as certain that god does not exist as I am that gravity does.
    Last edited: May 11, 2012
  11. void *

    void * Dereference Me!

    I tried to make this point somewhere in either this thread or the original that spawned it, using a brain in a box-ish argument, but CD, IIRC, missed the point completely. (Or, at least, appeared to do so, half the time he looks like he's trolling, so i guess mileage may vary).
    Last edited: May 11, 2012
  12. Gunhaver

    Gunhaver the wrong hands

    Jan 24, 2012
    Expanding on this point, the more your argument depends on the tiny probability that it could be true because it can't be disproven the less you should expect others to take it seriously. This is the reason that science is only interested in the falsifiable. The unfalsifiable (which the concept of god is specifically designed to be) only leaves us with "well, there's a tiny weeny itty bitty chance it could be". Big deal. it's ridiculous to fault someone for not considering the smallest possibilities and downright absurd to equate that to something completely falsifiable and as yet unfalsified for 150 years like evolution simply because it hasn't been proven beyond the shadow of a doubt.
    Last edited: May 11, 2012
  13. Lone Wolf8634

    Lone Wolf8634 :):

    Dec 23, 2007
    Under the bus
    Ya'll realize that this thread is a lot like wrestling a pig in a mud pit dontchya?

    It seemed like a good idea at the time, it was fun for a bit, but after a while you discover that the only thing you've accomplished is to get tired, dirty and frustrated.

    Meanwhile the pig is enjoying himself immensely.:supergrin:

  14. Geko45

    Geko45 Smartass Pilot CLM

    Nov 1, 2002
    Last edited: May 11, 2012
  15. You are reaching a bit here. Quantum Fluctuation depends on Supersymmetry, otherwise you still have to solve the Hierarchy problem. Supersymmetry has never been observed.

    Further, even it is correct, superpartners must annihilate each other in the absence of an external field or absense of an observer (to satisfy the proposed Unruh effect) in order to conserve the total fermion number of the universe. Without this, all QFT collapses. Therefore, the theory presupposes the existence of either an observer or a uniform field -- either of which is a cause for the continued existence of the particle pairs. QFT still has not escaped the Theory of Existance and causality.

    Pair creation is strictly dependent on the existance of the quantum field. This field is thought to be some energy, called quantum energy. This is akin to thermal noise depending on the existance of thermal energy. Just as thermal noise is "caused" by the heat energy, virtual particle/anti-particle pairs are created in the quantum field, but exist as real particles only in the presence of an external field. In the universe, there must be a lot of pre-existing energy to make the theory applicable to cosmology. So, where did the quantum energy and some external field come from? Why was it assymetrical? (...necessary for pairs to exist for any length of time and other details...) And again, how can you tie pair creation to the Beginning of Time problem? (That is, why did the pairs not create one second earlier, or last year, since time is infinite in both directions.) Since the quantum field is also supposed to exist today and account for things like gravity, and there exists an infinite amount of vacuum between any two atoms, why are we not innundated with created pairs? Yet, not a single particle/anti-particle pair is observed in nature. We are building huge colliders to prove it, though, which take huge amounts of energy and may give us one pair in a million tries.

    QFT seems like great progress in fixing the problems of QM and Relativity, but it still asks more questions than it answers.
  16. Geko45

    Geko45 Smartass Pilot CLM

    Nov 1, 2002
    I'm not prepared to debate you at the moment as it is Friday evening and I've had a few beers already, but I did want to commend you on actually challenging the position on its scientific merits and not just invoking the "goddidit" argument.

    Because we are not yet capable of reproducing the energy levels that existed several planck times after the Big Bang?
  17. juggy4711

    juggy4711 Nimrod Son

    Sep 20, 2006
    Galveston County, TX
    Of course the Sun doesn't actually rise but you knew what I meant. Is my faith that the Earth will spin and the Sun appear tomorrow morning a religion?

    No the belief in a non-personal, non-intervening deity is deism.

    I am a deist. I am not religious. Religion by definition requires faith and worship.

    Both are perfectly ok but one is a religious belief and the other isn't. If not believing in a God is a religious belief than so is not knowing whether there is or not.

    Theism - the religious belief that there is a personal, intervening God

    Polytheism - the religious belief that there are personal , intervening Gods.

    Deism - the religious belied that there is a God, but isn't personal or intervening

    Polydeism - the religious belief that there are Gods but aren't personal or intervening

    Atheism - the religious belief that the there are no Gods

    Agnostic - the religious belief the it isn't/can't be known if there is/are God/s

    What is it you think you have gain by asserting atheism is a religion?

    + What KSG, Gecko, Muscogee, Void, Lone and Gunhaver added.
  18. juggy4711

    juggy4711 Nimrod Son

    Sep 20, 2006
    Galveston County, TX
    Once again Gecko you beat me to the punch. I was preparing to respond and you take the words out of my mouth. However I will admit it may not be possible to build a machine on Earth that can do so. At least not with current technology.
  19. Geko45

    Geko45 Smartass Pilot CLM

    Nov 1, 2002
    Dude, you are in Galveston. I'm in Conroe. Muscogee is in San Antonio. I think there might be one or two others in Texas as well. We all need to get together for a beer!
    Last edited: May 11, 2012
  20. Going on vacation June 9. Other than that, pick a time, date, and place.
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