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Why is it so hard to admit Atheism is a Religion?

Discussion in 'Religious Issues' started by Cavalry Doc, Nov 7, 2010.


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  1. Cavalry Doc

    Cavalry Doc
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    I've been having a discussion with a fellow about his religion. He is an atheist, or at least he claims to be.

    http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=16262611&posted=1#post16262611

    He believes that God does not exist, however, he acknowledges that it is impossible for him to prove this belief.

    So, when it is pointed out that he has "Faith" that he is right, and that his view of the universe is right. As devout as any other religious fellow that I've run across.


    Just to make sure I am being clear about my own beliefs, I am unsure, I'm an agnostic. I see evidence in nature and in man that both makes me believe that there may be a God, and there may not be one, or at least it may be difficult to know which one is the right one.
     

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  2. mikeflys1

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    Is being bald a hair color?

    Is not collecting stamps a hobby?
     

  3. void *

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    If you really want understanding of this, please answer this question:

    Do you believe in the existence of Vishnu?

    When you answer, please carefully note that I asked if you *believe* - not whether it can be known or not known, but whether or not you *believe* it is true that Vishnu exists.
     
    #3 void *, Nov 7, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2010
  4. mikeflys1

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  5. Cavalry Doc

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    And what does either of those have to do with the fundamental nature of the universe?
     
  6. Cavalry Doc

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    To answer, I have my doubts. But I do not know for sure. I believe there is evidence that supports creation, and evidence that supports evolution. It's possible that Vishnu exists.


    Is it so hard to admit?
     
  7. mikeflys1

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    Nothing, but they're perfect analogies to demonstrate the mistake in your thought process here.
     
  8. Cavalry Doc

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    If you want to see my answer to your post, lets move this to the GT Religious Issues Forum.

    See ya there. http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1282322


    The whole "pixies" metaphor minimizes the gravity of the question at hand, and is likely something you've used before to mock the question.

    Does God exist or not? You said in the other thread that you "believe" there is no god, but you have no proof.

    Like it or not, that is faith.
     
  9. Cavalry Doc

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    I think what you are trying to describe is whether the approach to atheism is active or passive.


    Whether passive or active, if you do believe there is a deity, you do. If you don't, you don't.

    Agnosticism ranges from whether it is impossible to know, or whether the individual simply does not know.

    I think it is possible to know, only if there is a God. I assume that we would all find out in the afterlife. If there isn't, I doubt we would be aware enough to realize it after we are dead.
     
  10. Cavalry Doc

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    I think they are minimization of the issue.


    I'll go first. I don't know if there are any deities.


    Are you personally sure that there is or is not a god?
     
  11. void *

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    I find it pretty funny that you responded, in this thread, to the post from the other thread - when I had already asked a question in this thread, and was already here to see it (edited: and, in fact, you had already responded to it)

    http://glocktalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16262676&postcount=3

    I selected Vishnu in this case because an actual god that people really, really believe in ought to hold sufficient 'gravitas' that you might focus on the parallels rather than saying it doesn't matter.

    So - Do you believe that Vishnu exists? Not 'do you doubt', not 'do you know or not know', but can you honestly accept the premise that Vishnu is real?

    Edit: Or, in other words, would you give the answer 'Yes' to the question 'Does CavalryDoc believe Vishnu actually exists'?
     
    #11 void *, Nov 7, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2010
  12. mikeflys1

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    Do you understand the difference between the terms "atheist" and "agnostic"?

    Again: http://atheism.about.com/od/aboutagnosticism/a/atheism.htm


    "First learn, then form opinions"
     
  13. Ramjet38

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    Would you please answer Doc's question of "Are you personally sure that there is or is not a god"?

    Thanks
     
  14. Cavalry Doc

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    I can honestly accept the possibility that vishnu exists. But I believe that I do not know whether he does or does not exist.

    Do you know? Do you just know it in your heart, or can you prove it one way or the other?
     
  15. Cavalry Doc

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    That's pretty funny. dismissive condescension. It's not working, but it is funny.

    Maybe you could try learning the actual definition of the terms you are using.

    The bold section fits closest. It may be knowable, but I personally do not have enough proof one way or the other to state conclusively that God, or a God does or does not exist.

    So, now that we've gotten past your misconception.


    Are you personally sure that there is or is not a god?


    See, the problem is I am not sure. If you are sure, how? What convinced you?
     
  16. RC-RAMIE

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    Because its not a religion.

    I can't prove if there is a real easter bunny but I don't give it a enough chance to consider it, I feel the same way about a god.

    Why do I have to prove a god religious people CLAIM is real I am sure there is no god I have seen no reason to believe in one. I do not have faith there is no god just like I don't have faith there is no tooth fairy. I put theme in the same category. Does that make my no faith in the easter bunny and the tooth fairy a religion? No that would be silly.

    Why do people fill the need to label something that does not want to be a religion or claims to be a religion or a religion? Especially on glock talk to want to call atheism a religion when it claims not to be and islam not a religion when it has been for a long time.
     
    #16 RC-RAMIE, Nov 7, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2010
  17. void *

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    This is, again, not an answer to the question asked. I am not asking if you accept it as possible. I am not asking you if you believe you know. I am not asking about what you know - I am asking about what you believe, I am asking whether or not you accept the proposition "Vishnu exists" as something you believe.

    Please, just honestly answer the question - Do you believe that Vishnu exists?

    Or, to put it a slightly different way, do you have faith that Vishnu exists?
     
    #17 void *, Nov 7, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2010
  18. Cavalry Doc

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    It is a belief system that seeks to explain the basic nature of the universe.

    It IS a religion. It's OK to admit it if you are one of the faithful. All of us here believe in the right of the individual to practice the religion of his choice.


    Denial that Atheism requires faith without proof, of the real situation of affairs in nature, and of the supernatural, doesn't help. It's just a denial of the truth.


    Either you have faith that you are correct, or you don't.

    If you don't, maybe you're really an agnostic?
     
  19. Cavalry Doc

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    You asked a question, and I answered it honestly. Just because you don't like the answer does not make it any less honest.

    You have already illustrated that you are a victim of digital thinking......

    Open your mind, and allow yourself the ability to believe that some people are honestly not so arrogant as to believe that they have all the answers.....

    I really don't know if Vishnu exists or not. And if you will actually admit the truth, neither do you.
     
  20. void *

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    You haven't answered the question, at all, either honestly or dishonestly.

    You have answered the question 'Do you believe you know whether or not Vishnu exists' with what appears to be a 'No'. (Edit: More specifically, you stated "I believe that I do not know whether he does or does not exist." - which is 'Yes' to the question 'Do you believe that you do not know', which is answering 'No' to the question 'Do you believe that you know').

    You have answered the question 'Is it possible that Vishnu exists' with what appears to be a 'Yes'. (Edit: You stated that you accept it as possible)

    You have answered the question 'Do you know Vishnu exists' with what appears to be a 'No'. (Edit: If you don't believe you know, then you hold the position that you don't know)

    But you have not answered the question 'Do you believe Vishnu exists', and telling yourself that it's just that I don't like the answer doesn't change that.

    Since an actual answer to that question (coming from you, rather than me inferring a likely answer based on what you have actually answered) is critical to the point, I can't really explain further without you actually answering it.

    Edit: So I can only really ask the same question again, in yet another different way:
    Do you accept the proposition that Vishnu exists?
     
    #20 void *, Nov 7, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2010
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