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Why if you OC, have a good retention system, open carrier shot with own gun

Discussion in 'Carry Issues' started by Deaf Smith, Dec 6, 2011.


    Tyler, a customer at the BP station, was killed about 8:15 p.m. Friday, Nov. 25, inside the store. According to court papers, Smith and Hamiel arrived at the BP together on a single scooter and followed Tyler into the store.

    Tyler, 48, had a concealed-carry permit, but his handgun was plainly visible that night in his holster, Johnson said.

    "The suspects walk in and one immediately reached for Mr. Tyler's gun," Johnson said. Tyler did not draw his weapon.

    According to court papers, Smith took Tyler's gun during a struggle and shot Tyler in the chest after the victim chased Smith inside the store. Authorities said they could not confirm that Tyler was killed with his own gun until they get the results of forensics testing. They also are awaiting test results to show whether the gun used to kill Tyler was the one used to shoot Cosby.​

    Yes to murders and it looks like the CCW carrier's gun was used in both, including the murder of the CCW carrier!

    And that is the problem with OC. Cops use a duty belt and retention system that is strong enough to stop the snatch of even a drug crazed nutjob.

    Think about it.


    Moderator Note: If you want to start a rude and insulting testosterone spewing contest about open carry, go somewhere else. Do it here and you'll not like the results.

    If you want to discuss this event in a reasonable manner, you're welcome to stay.
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 6, 2011
  2. IndyGunFreak


    Jan 26, 2001
    Well, situational awareness is also important.

    It sounds to me, like there was *at least* 2 weapons in the store, since they need to do ballistic testing to see if he was killed with his own firearm. They're also not sure if his gun was used to kill the other victim.

    We may well have a case of "Concealed carry could have prevented this".

    Very sad situation though, thoughts and prayers to the families of the victims.

  3. Gunnut 45/454

    Gunnut 45/454

    Jun 20, 2002
    Deaf Smith
    Gee even cops with all there retension holsters get them taken away! When I OC I'm awear of everyone around me-Sounds like those two followed him and then pounced on him. Bad SA on his part. When there's no way to keep enough distance between me and others my hand is on the butt of my pistol. There is no way to snatch my pistol without getting an immediate punch to the face followed by many more! And it will most likely end with a bullet or two being added to the perps pain! CCW does pervent this! I hope both of those perps get the death sentence!:steamed:
  4. gunowner1


    Jul 11, 2011
    Jensen Beach
    Always better to keep the firearm concealed while in a public place.
  5. xmanhockey7


    Dec 6, 2010
    There are upsides and downsides to OC and CC. Also just like a citizen who OC or CC police can have their guns taken away.
  6. To me, how a person chooses to carry (OC or CC) is the same as what a person chooses to carry (enough gun; enough ammo, etc...). Their choices don't affect me, so I really don't care. And if their choices don't work out, oh well... Lesson learned.

    Incumbent upon the individual to learn about the strengths and weaknesses of all options, then make informed choices.

    And even informed choices could later turn out to be very bad choices. Life sucks that way. Sorry.
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2011
  7. Choice does kind of affect you. Notice the 16 year old went off and tried to rob someone else and killed them with the CCW's gun. That could have been you or a loved one.

    That is what the ballistics test is about. The other victim was in a car blocks off and robbed/shot dead.

    The same 16 yr old is supposed to have done both.

    And as for retention, yea cops now and then have someone TRY to snatch them. Mostly the thug fails.

    Last edited: Dec 6, 2011
  8. jp3975


    Nov 13, 2008
    Texarkana, Tx
    You cant be "aware" and prevent this. For those that are hardcore about oc and carry to coffee shops and everywhere else...You're going to be "aware" of people in line behind you? If I want your gun and we're in're loosing it.

    This is why oc is a bad thing. It makes other gun owners look bad when someone gets shot with their own gun. Just more fodder for the antis.

    And really...when in town what does it accomplish? Looking cool? It should be concealed only imo. And not just because somebody will snatch your gun and kill you with it...but you'll definitely be shot in a robbery/ mass shooting if they see it before they start.

    With CC its a surprise.
  9. jp3975


    Nov 13, 2008
    Texarkana, Tx
    But everyone knows police have guns. So they may as well oc. You have a great advantage if no one knows you have a gun.
  10. cowboy1964


    Sep 4, 2009
    Would love to see the reactions you must get standing in line at the checkout at Wally World with your hand on your gun.
  11. xmanhockey7


    Dec 6, 2010
  12. RussP

    RussP Moderator

    Jan 23, 2003
    Central Virginia
    For those not familiar with Richmond, this occurred about 4 blocks from the Richmond PD 2nd Precinct.

    That neighborhood has been a rough one since the mid to late 60s. It is certainly not a place I'm comfortable being after dark now.

    There is a followup story here:

    In the story the victim's wife said he got a gun this year for protection because of an incident years ago that she said had made him feel defenseless.

    What was he doing at that location, some will ask. Well, he lived in apartments 650 yards from the station. Might say that was the neighborhood convenience store.

    This is an example, sadly, of why I stick to my personal rules for open carry. I open carry only when and where appropriate. In this case, the "when" is the more important criteria. I do not open carry from about 30 minutes before sunset and not until 30 minutes after sunrise. That is just where my comfort level is.

    As far as situational awareness, it appears Tyler was followed into the store and immediately attacked. Just illustrates situational awareness is a full time job.
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2011
  13. jp3975


    Nov 13, 2008
    Texarkana, Tx
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2011
  14. jack76590


    Aug 15, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 7, 2011
  15. kensteele


    Aug 3, 2003
    Leawood, KS
    So the victim was chasing after the suspect when his gun was taken?
  16. Schrag4


    May 21, 2010
    Wichita, KS
    I read it to mean that the victim had his gun stolen then chased after the thief. Dunno. It wasn't very clearly written.
  17. FM12

    FM12 I need AMMO!

    Jun 17, 2007
    Apparently OC didnt prevent this!
  18. brausso


    Mar 7, 2010
    Puget Sound
    For **** sake what is wrong with people?

    Lock that little **** up and throw away the keys
  19. TDC20


    Apr 11, 2011
    This is why I prefer concealed carry over open carry. Had the victim been carrying concealed, two people would be alive today, including himself. The savages would have passed him over and he would have never even known how close he was to danger.

    Why is it that juvenile records are sealed? Maybe for shoplifting or something minor like that, but anyone sociopathic enough to be committing violent felonies at age 13...why hide something like that? I think the public has a right to know and identify criminally dangerous people, regardless of age, especially if the courts are not going to lock them up..

    Anyway, the courts have dropped the ball on this one and now two people are dead. -1 for open carry.
  20. Atomic Punk

    Atomic Punk

    Mar 11, 2008
    CC would have prevented this? :tongueout:

    or a good retention holster?