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Why I use the Lee FCCD

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by dudel, Apr 13, 2010.


  1. dudel

    dudel
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    Prodded by Fred's post, I thought I'd put up one my target results.

    I keep hearing about how the Lee Carbide Crimp die is so bad with lead, that I figured I post some of what I see. This is a light load 38 Spl with a 148gr WC (Lee cast DEWC water dropped, un sized, tumbled lubed with LLA from scrap alloy consisting mostly of stickon WW with some clipon WW). The gun is a T/C Contender in 10" from a rest with open sights at 25yds indoors.

    The group *might* have been tighter without the use of the Lee CCD; but I doubt too many people are going to complain about the accuracy. I'm not sure I could do much better.
     

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    #1 dudel, Apr 13, 2010
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2010
  2. fredj338

    fredj338
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    i didn;t see much accuracy diff using a hard cast bullet. It's possible that there is little spring back or deformation of a harder bullet. Notice though, the plated, being soft lead, didn't seem to like the LFCD. I am going to run another test & include soft cast LHP. We'll get to the bottom of this whole LFCD thing.:supergrin:
     

  3. Colorado4Wheel

    Colorado4Wheel
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    You do realize "people" are saying to measure the die and check it for yourself NOT that they totally will ruin your ammo if you use one? BIG difference. I could post a target of my 10mm stuff that gets sized but whats the point. No one actually pays any attention once you mention the FCD around here.
     
  4. steve4102

    steve4102
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    I have only been loading handgun ammo since Jan 09, I have used the LFCD on everything I have loaded so far. Jacketed, Lead and Plated, duno if my loads would be more accurate without the LFCD, but I am planing a test soon.


    I do most of my shooting off a bag at 20-25 yards. I've been having good luck accuracy wise with every thing except the Rainer 115gr Plated in my 9MM. Maybe it's the crimp, duno, I'll find out soon.

    I only shoot lead in my 45 ACPs. So far I have had no major leading issues and accuracy is good using the LFCD.

    5 rounds from my DW PM-7 with 4.9gr WST and 200gr Missouri LSWC.
    [​IMG]
     
  5. mteagle1

    mteagle1
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    I am not sure why other people use a Lee Factory Crimp Die but I use it so I am sure every round will drop in the barrel and fire. Reloading on a Dillon 550 and turning out 1000's of practice rounds I can not/will not check every round in a case guage to see if it fit in a chamber/cyclinder. Accuracy is obtained from using the right amount and type of powder and the crimp is more a removal of the bell needed to get the bullet into the case. Last recorded crimp for a 45ACP was .471 and the last 1000 plated .40's were .421. The 40 S&W's for a match were checked with only 4 failures to case guage all the same brand from range pickups. They were for a steel match were I had planned to not pick up brass.
     
  6. DoctaGlockta

    DoctaGlockta
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    If it goes bang and makes a hole close to where I aim it I'm good.

    Whether that be with a FCD or not.

    Stop the insanity.

    [​IMG]

    Errrr.... except for rifle - I always use one :)
     
    #6 DoctaGlockta, Apr 14, 2010
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2010
  7. RustyFN

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    Yea we have a winner. That is the exact same thing I use the FCD for. I have been trying to tell everybody that but some times it seems like nobody hears. To me a case gage is a waste of time. It won't tell me if the OAL is too long, you need the barrel for that. If a round won't chamber it is easy enough to figure out the problem without one.
     
  8. fredj338

    fredj338
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    True Rusty, but once the correct OAL is established in your bbl, the case gage tells you if the round will chamber correctly. I wanted to give the LFCD a fair try, hate to be missing something, but so far, I don't feel I am. If I had it, I would use it for hard lead or jacketed, but the drop off in accuracy w/ plated would have me leave it in the box.:wavey:
     
    #8 fredj338, Apr 15, 2010
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2010
  9. Colorado4Wheel

    Colorado4Wheel
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    Thats the crux of the issue. Some people have issues with the FCD and some don't. It's crazy that people that don't have issues dismiss the people who do have issues and that people who do have issues don't listen to those that don't. It's not a absolute. All I have said from the beginning is that the FCD has the possibility of sizing your rounds and tried to help people understand how to figure out if they could be sizing your rounds. People get all defensive in the process. Thats just crazy. BTW, my new lead bullet combo in 9mm is big enough that it would likely get sized by the FCD. Getting people to actually dial caliper these things is one of the hardest thing I have ever seen on a forum. Jeez. Pull out your dial calipers and just measure the damn thing.
     
  10. mteagle1

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    My .45's with Precision or Black Bullet International go through the same FCD die but the Precision has an OAL of 1.220 because of the flat nose ogive while the BBI are 1.260. Guns are also different the Precisions go through 1911's and a Para, the BBI's in a S&W 625. My way of telling loads apart.
     
  11. Uncle Don

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    I've heard you for along time Rusty - because I use it for the same reason. Any accuracy increase would be icing on the case, but I'm simply not going to be one of those that keep dropping cases into a gauge - seems completely silly to me.
     
  12. XDRoX

    XDRoX
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    I'm new to reloading and have a question about case gauging.
    So far I have loaded over 1500 rounds without a case gauge or a LFCD. After my first round in a new batch I drop it in the barrel to make sure it goes all the way in and falls out easily. I assume if I was using a case gauge I would basically do the same thing.

    Question: Why would I have to worry about some cases not passing the case gauge test? Aren't they all going through the same dies? Isn't the job of the dies to correctly size the case?

    If so, then why would another sizing die (LFCD) at the end of the reloading process fix this?

    I guess I'm confused about two things. Why do some rounds not case gauge? And what is the LFCD doing that my 3 die sets aren't?

    Thanks
     
  13. Uncle Don

    Uncle Don
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    XD,

    The value of the fcd is hotley debated. Actual fact is that it is not required and if you are having perfect luck with your three die set, then you are good to go. There are two different types of factory crimp dies - two different types for handgun cartridges that have the carbide sizing ring (one produces a roll crimp for revolver calibers and taper for semi-auto calibers) The second style are those for rifle that use a collet that crimps the top portion of the case and those don't have a carbide sizer.

    Some, including myself find it a beneficial die. Some like the fact that it post sizes so the final stage of loading puts the full cartridge through a sizer which means that it will chamber without any concerns. I like it because I often use several different types of bullets and don't want to change my seating/crimping die - therefore using the fcd to crimp leaves my third die to only seat the bullet. Under those circumstances, that can easily be done by the adjustment knob. I've not had occasion to "need" the post sizing, but I also know that the cartridge will chamber without having to use a case gauge or even the bbl to check it. Depending on the circumstances, they can increase accuracy due to each round having to have the same pressure to release the bullet. Consistency helps lead to accuracy. Improper adjustment of the die can naturally subvert any potential benefit, but no one ever admits to being one of those people.

    The other crowd belives it is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist and think the rest of us "need" it because we are somehow making a mistake earlier in the process that needs fixed at the end. Some believe the measurements cause bullets to deform and contest that they degrade accuracy. In the end, it is a tool in which you need to make the decision as to whether it enhances your reloading experience or not. I would highly recommend trying it yourself and coming to your own conclusion regardless of what it is. Don't let any of us convince you by words alone.
     
    #13 Uncle Don, Apr 15, 2010
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2010
  14. GioaJack

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    Good post, very level headed, articulately written.

    Jack
     
  15. fredj338

    fredj338
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    If you used all the same brass & bullets, it is unlikely that you would have a problem w/ your ammo. I never had case gages until this year, never needed the LFCD either. I shoot mixed brass, never sort, all kinds of diff bullets style. Occasionally, a case comes up that is out of spec.
    If the case is very thick, once you put a bullet in it, seat it & crimp it, it is the dia it is. Some brass springs back a bit more than others. Number of firings, brand of brass, etc. All this can make for rounds that will become out of spec AFTER seating the bullet. The idea of the LFCD is to resize after bullet seating. Again, IMO, more of an issue since peopel started loading for their Glocks. If it makes anyone happy to use the LFCD, great, I just get tired of hearing, that it's necessary to make reliable, accurate ammo, which it is not.:dunno: Your ammo may be mnore reliable, but may also be less accurate. For IDPA/under 15yds, the loss of some accuracy may be unimportant vs making sure all your rounds chamber & fire.
     
    #15 fredj338, Apr 15, 2010
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2010
  16. XDRoX

    XDRoX
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    Very informative, thanks.

    This answers my question of why some rounds won't chamber after all the reloading is done. Thanks Fred.
     
  17. Colorado4Wheel

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    So is loosing a match or stage because you didn't want to take 10 mins to case gauge the ammo.
     
  18. dudel

    dudel
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    +1 for Uncle Don's post. Clear and consise.

    If you haven't made up your own mind yet, for $10 you can get one, try it, and come to your own decision. It's not going to break the bank; and there are enough out there who would buy it if you sold it. Heck, you could probably sell it on eBay and make a profit! :supergrin:

    Don

     
  19. dudel

    dudel
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    Good point Fred. At 15yrds, IPDA puts more emphasis on reliable feeding and firing than 300 yd benchrest does. I agree with Uncle Don's point as well. Seems strange to go progressive to crank out lots of rounds; only to go single stage to case guage each one.

    Besides if if your technique is so good that you don't need the FCCD, then the rounds will just slide through without any effect from the sizing ring. If on the other hand you feel one that is getting sized, deal with it the same way you would if it didn't fit the case guage. Again, you've solved the neeed to case guage.
     
  20. tjpet

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    I'm in the "don't need it camp."

    Having loaded God-knows-how-many 9mm, 40S&W, and .45ACP rounds over the last 40 years through a variety of firearms, I've yet to see a need for such an item. If your resizing die is set up properly and you're taper crimping I still can't see the reason for the FCD except to cover a bit of sloppy reloading.
     
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