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Discussion in 'Religious Issues' started by Gunhaver, Jan 10, 2013.
Not at all, people are lazy. That doesn't mean it isn't the right think to do though.
Much as I hate to respond to you directly I really can't resist this one. What exactly do you think a symbiotic relationship is? 2 organisms benefit from each other and they both enjoy a higher survival rate as a result.
We have that arrangement with every single plant and animal that modern agriculture has a hand in. In the case of weed, humans find the plant's chemicals beneficial for health (and if you absolutely refuse to believe that it helps anyone to survive cancer and many other ailments at least acknowledge that many teenagers have gotten stoned and then knocked up thus increasing the birth rate of humans) and they enjoy a higher survival rate by the humans cultivating them.
We have this arrangement with every plant we use so yes, there is a symbiotic relationship between humans and weed.
As for the reason for those receptors being there? Ever seen a cat or dog eat plants to get some substance from them? There are receptors in the GI tracts of those animals that make them feel better (even if a good hard induced barf into your sock drawer was all they needed) when those substances are introduced.
That may not be the exact reason those receptor sites are there but we're talking about evolution here. It's all about whatever works.
Tobacco, weed, chili peppers, latex trees= nicotine, cannabinoids, capsaisin and rubber. All of these plants evolved a specific substance as a natural insecticide. Those substances help the plants survive the insect threat but then humans come along and find those substances addictive, intoxicating, tasty or good for making condoms and tires (woops, looks like a net population decrease in humans for the latex tree until you consider the transportation boom's effect on our gene pool) and those plant's survival is very much ensured by us for reasons the plants never would have intended if they had that ability. Again, whatever works.
It's truly amazing what a lack of understanding you can display about biology sometimes given your studies. Maybe if you would embrace the theory of evolution 100% instead of just 95% you could understand a whole lot more.
Syclone - Agreed. I'm more interested in what will likey happen, not what is the most "right".
This is a discussion for a different thread, however, so I'll leave it at that.
Speaking of sensible posts it's good to see one from you for a change. Proper spelling and grammar to boot.
You might actually be a worthy adversary if you ever bothered to engage with anything more than humping dog videos, lame memes and projection disguised as psychological diagnoses. Join the fun Blast!
One should be naturally suspicious of health claims when a single plant is supposedly the cure for just about everything, and has absolutely no adverse reactions. There is no panacea. Coral snake venom, cyanide, and hemlock also have receptors they work on. Those are all natural too.
There is no perfect drug. Too much of anything is a bad thing.
I think a lot of the "medicinal" use is actually recreational. I don't really care if people use it as long as they aren't on public assistance. If you can pay, I don't mind if you play.
It likely does help a lot of things, some directly, and a lot of other things can be masked by euphoria. Back pain for instance. It probably doesn't make your back any better, but if you can't feel your head you might not pay much attention to your back.
There you go with that "can't feel your head" stuff. What exactly does that mean? Have you ever tried it so's you actually know what you're talking about? I've never experienced anything like that. If I'd ever had actual neck up paralysis then that would have been the last time for me. Most of the time it makes you "feel your head" even better plus everything else if you know what I mean.
Where do you draw the line between recreational and medicinal use? Is using it for pain relief recreational if you don't consider the pain severe enough? How do you judge someone else's pain? Does the fact that my girl had a morphine drip the last time she was admitted for 2 days for stomach pains entitle her to your approval to use it? (not that we'd ever seek your approval for anything, just curious where you draw the line) or would you prefer a taxpayer funded trip to the ER each time for something that really works well?
And if someone else uses it to get rid of a slight migraine so they can enjoy their evening more or uses it with a Pink Floyd album so they can enjoy their evening more, then what's the difference? The net result is that they're happier. How does that bother you?
Your hemlock and cyanide comparison sucks as much as your Hoyle's fallacy because it does not apply. I'm not focusing on the simple fact that it's natural. I'm focused on the fact that it has worked for many many others just like I focus on what the hemlock and cyanide has done for many others. If the desired effect was death then I might consider those. You pretend like we just strolled through the woods eating random plants, rocks, insects and pieces of poo looking for the desired effect and that's how we stumbled across it.
Do you not see how often you insult your own intelligence while trying to insult mine? I would dearly love to compare IQ scores with you but you seem to prefer money as the measure of intelligence, I assume, because that's what you have. You think your age and life experience give you an edge on me but I suspect that world travels, combat experience and medical school are what it took to bring you this close to my level of intellect.
The fact that you rally others against me with your obsession over my nearly 2 decade old interview fib (that I freely admitted to) shows that you feel that you're having trouble engaging me one on one and coming out on top (no homo bro, that was just a joke) without a team of conservatives to back you up. Really Doc? I was early 20s. Are you going to tell me you NEVER say something that's not exactly true for personal gain? Say you don't just so I can grin and rest assured that you're the bigger liar by far.
As for the attitude that this single plant is the cure for everything, I'm not surprised that this topic has it's it's extreme advocates just like any other. I do know people who have smoked themselves retarded and you'd be surprised how much pot it takes. You speak from complete ignorance and inexperience on this subject.
I'd love to know this story just to know the petty unimportant crap he likes to drag around and keep bringing up over and over with his PI wack job buddies.
I wished they'd just hurry up and make out and get it over with.
Ha! Pick a thread at random and chances are that Cav PA and Certifiedfunds have trotted it out and provided the link in a sad attempt to discredit me while simultaneously avoiding something I said that they didn't want to address.
Many years ago in my early 20s or so when I was in pretty urgent need of a job (you know, that thing you must have to not be a useless freeloader socialist in the eyes of the boys here on GT) I got an interview for a maintenance position at a golf country club. The first interview was with a female manager I assume just to screen out the guys that their maintenance director didn't want to bother talking to. During the tour of their mechanical room she asked me if I knew about pneumatic thermostat systems and the specific type of boiler/chiller system they had. I had worked with boiler/chillers at a hotel for a few months and got universal HVAC certified while I was there because they paid for it (I have that card too Doc and CF if you need proof) and I hadn't even heard much about pneumatic control systems beyond the fact that they existed but I was sure I could research and figure them out before the second interview when I'd have to talk to someone that actually would know what to ask me.
So I said yes. I did work with them before. I lied to someone who wouldn't have known I was FOS if I'd told her they were powered by a flux capacitor driving a rotary vane pump riding on 3/4" muffler bearings to compress weasel farts. She said OK, marked me for a return interview and I went home and studied up on air stat systems and their new B/C models. I got that job AND I solved a problem they'd been having which they were happy about. Win win. Except I didn't know until I posted in that thread where somebody asked if they should lie for someone to get them a job that I was a no good dirty dishonest fibber who can't be trusted for anything.
Moral of the story: Everybody needs to have a job at all times or they're useless crap socialists Barackaclaus voters and don't dare be the slightest bit dishonest to get that job no matter how bad you need it or you're a filthy rotten liar as well. You know what fine upstanding honest productive citizens the tax whiners around here are.
Here's the latest gem, http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1465198
Also don't miss my thread in cop talk asking if cops would confiscate high cap mags since they happily do it every day in states where they're not legal. Happyguy highly highly recommends it. Basically it's just another tough question that I can't seem to get a straight answer to. They were very offended that I would even question their "authoritay".
And they keep bringing this up? You being dishonest about a thermostat system... someone that goes by Doc and isn't a Doctor gives you crap about thermostat systems? The retardedness is overwhelming.
Oh wow... they're all like that aren't they? If Guns aren't your A number 1 priority you're a Marxist Socialist Commie. I thought it was just the 3 or 4 wackos that Cav-Pa drug in here to back him up.
Obscure humor. It's from a Jeff Foxworthy skit.
But a lot of humor is loosely based on reality, which is what makes it funny, it's anesthesia (paralysis is different). There is a sensation of euphoria, changes in cognitive function, and an impairment of some functions, with a sensation of enhancement of others. (more on that later)
Non sequitur. If it's for fun, it's recreational. If it is rightly or incorrectly used with the goal to alleviate illness, it's medicinal.
You don't often judge pain. You grade it more often.
You almost always try to find the source, and I tend to aggressively treat pain. Ask before jumping to conclusions, it'll make you appear more rational.
Now there are times when there is a nonorganic etiology to the pain. Check out Waddell's signs. You can look it up. It does NOT prove the patient is lying, but it does bring up three more likely scenarios. One, the patient is lying, and they need to leave. Two, the patient has pain, but is over-endorsing their symptoms for some reason. Third, the patient actually believes that what you did caused extra pain, and they need a psych eval. I guess in those situations, you are judging a bit.
One rule I have for anyone I don't trust, test the hell out of them. Look everywhere, leave no stone unturned. Why? Because even the worst craziest psychotic hypochondriac will eventually develop a fatal disease. You don't want to be the last guy that didn't check.
Lets face facts, medicinally, it's over prescribed as a cover for A LOT of recreational use. It's either for fun, or with another goal. If it's for fun, I'm cool with it, as long as you are not on public assistance and you are pulling your own weight in society. I've seen enough correlation with daily MJ use and welfare to not like that too much. If we are paying otherwise healthy welfare bums enough to buy weed too, we are giving them too much, but that's a whole different discussion.
Here's where I have to hold you up a bit.
You definitely implied either a evolutionary cause, and even postulated a creationist possibility. Both implying there was a reason for the presence of the receptor. See below:
Do you want to change what you said? If there is a reason, what could possibly be the reason? What did man do before he discovered pot? Reason, who's reason? Why then are there unhealthy receptors in the body. You have enough of your own self manufactured histamine in your body to kill you in about 15 minutes, only a lack of an IgE mediated response is keeping you here.
The presence of a receptor is simply an opportunity to effect physiology. It can be good, bad, both, neither, overt or occult.
You've stumbled onto something we refer to as "True, True, and unrelated".
Actually, primate foods were discovered through a process of trial and error, and opportunity. There must have been a lot of bravery involved. Imagine the first guy that ate yogurt, cottage cheese, squid, Fugu??? For Fugu, maybe the third guy to try it was the brave one.
Was weed "presented" to man? If so, by what, or who? This tangent you are going down is very interesting. I sense more is still to be discovered there.
Mind if I ask how much weed you had in the 6 hours prior to making this post? I'm just curious if your overinflated ego is dose related or not.
I know you aimed for a button, but I don't have that button. I live well below my means. I have a modest home & modestly priced vehicles. I do splurge a bit on computers and other electronics, and hunting/shooting stuff, but not too much. I don't know when payday happens. I don't (physically) pay the bills. I have not balanced a checkbook since 1990. No, my wife does not have to work outside the home. I can help my kids with college. I can cover all of my responsibilities. I honestly chose my profession because I felt I could do more to help people. I have a lot of fun doing that.
I've never lied on a resume. I've never cheated on a test or my taxes. I've never cheated on a girlfriend or a spouse. I've been married exactly one time, to the same lady for just over 26 years. I've never falsified a report, lied under oath. I did get one speeding ticket for doing 18 mph in a 6 mph zone once.
I have smoked it in high school. But it was incompatible with the direction in life I was going so I simply didn't do it any more. I remember it making one feel a lot smarter than they really were. Deep thoughts was a cool game on it. Paradoxes seemed to be fascinating. I also remember being a lot more giggly than I was normally.
I watched friends smoke themselves lazy and stupid before they got out of high school. Had one friend that drowned in 6 feet of water while fishing on weed. That was after I had left home.
No substance that has a physiologic effect on the human body is without risk. It's not a panacea that achieves homeostasis in all conditions. Look at your own psychological tendencies, your motivation, the irritation you feel when it's been a while since you had some, and you'll see it. Probably won't admit it, but it's there.
Interesting. In the other threads you seemed much more defensive, but here, with cool begeezus, you can calmly explain your actions and not call for him to be taxed into oblivious or claim all of his money belongs to everyone.
I think we may have witnessed the first GTRI atheist confession. G36S has even absolved you.
It's a miracle!!
Since you're still hung up on this, maybe you won't mind answering my question from the other thread?
Doc was still on Active Duty when he signed up on the forum, and hence, still a 'Doc' in the military sense. You owned a Glock 36 when you signed up, but no longer have it. If you can still be Glock36shooter, why can't he still be CavDoc? You said it was because you couldn't change your handle. But then, neither can Doc. Why the double standard?
I agree about the level of retardedness, but I'm not convinced it applies to Doc in this case.
That's the level of discourse in Political Issues. I get the same abuse. Most of them are off the right edge of the known universe.
Just to go with the wine.
Go ahead and pretend that unpopular opinions are not met with dishonest discourse, ad homs, outright deceitfulness, and G36S, which I guess is redundant.
No Sarge... what I am hung up on is that Cav-Pa has apparently been following Gunhaver around with this for years. Something that is insignificant and unimportant and you can't seem to understand that. I assume due to some bro code because you and Cav-Pa were both in the service. Why am I petty and he is not? I've been doing this THIS WEEK... he's apparently been dragging this petty nonsense on FOR YEARS. Do you see a discrepancy?
I do not care about military jargon. I'm sure you call your actual doctors doc. I'm sorry the military doesn't have more imaginative nomenclature. But you're either a Doctor or you are not. You have either earned the title or you have not. If all you military guys wanna run down to the VFW and call him Doc all day that's fine. In the regular world... He's not a Doctor.
Because I WAS a Glock 36 shooter... and I still can shoot a Glock 36 if you put one in my hand. He never was nor is he now an actual Doctor. No one cares about military jargon but military folk. And Military Jargon doesn't fly anywhere but in the military. While inaccurate terminology might be ok in the military I do not have to accept it in the non-military world. Your argument is that because military have a low standard for who they call Doctor... I should accept and adopt that low standard.
I was trying to avoid conflict with you. We've been friendly up until this nonsense. I just wanted to move past it. But apparently you feel very strongly about this. So here we are. I was an actual Glock 36 owner and shooter. Not just in military jargon but in real life. I can still shoot one. Cav-PA never was nor is now an actual Doctor. There is a difference even if you refuse to see it.
You sure? I've been doing this a few days. He's been following Gunhaver around with this nonsense for YEARS. You sure the retardedness doesn't fall a little heavier into his camp? The second you have it out with Cav-PA in any kind of serious way he immediately starts following you around, stalking you, dragging one thread into another, getting his PI goons to help him organize a witch hunt. He's an internet stalker. I'm happy to ignore him and talk to other people. He is not. Even now what we are really talking about is his inability to leave Gunhaver alone. Otherwise we wouldn't be talking about him at all as he doesn't matter.
Careful... you'll be falsely accused of claiming PTSD like I was.
The "humping dog" videos were to prove a point which of course continues to be over your head.
Point out my alleged spelling and grammar issues.
For trolls such as yourself, memes are fun.
As for your psychological issues, I have studied psychology for years... my assessment stands.
Now go play in a war zone.
I don't see a discrepancy, because I don't know what the hell you're talking about. I've been on this board for years, I don't remember Doc ever pestering Gunhaver about his handle.
Yes, Doc and I are both ex-military medical. You can call it bro code if you want (ya hippie ), I just call it respect. Doc and I disagree plenty, and it's gotten nasty at times, but regardless of our disagreements, I respect his military service, his chosen profession, and the fact that he went from being an enlisted man to becoming a commissioned officer. None of those are easy tasks. I'm sure becoming a CPA isn't easy either, but to me it just doesn't compare.
If you knew some of the nomenclature that existed in the military, you'd know that some of it is VERY imaginative, to the point of ridiculousness at times.
I doubt if very many people in the 'regular world' do call him Doc. But that's not what we're talking about here; we're talking about a nickname on an Internet forum, which is why I don't understand how you can take this so seriously.
No, he never was nor is he now an actual Doctor. But to say that no one cares about military jargon but military folk, or that the jargon doesn't fly anywhere but the military is the most ignorant thing I've heard for some time. You can't turn on the TV, pickup a newspaper, or read an internet forum - let alone a GUN forum - without being inundated with military jargon. It is literally everywhere. That you may not know where some words and phrases originated doesn't change where they came from.
Ask a wounded soldier if he thinks calling the guy who saved his life 'Doc' is accepting a low standard. Dare ya.
I see the difference, I just don't accept that it is any kind of a problem.
I'm sure. I don't worry about anybody being followed or stalked on a forum unless they ask me for help. Did Gunhaver ask for your help? I rather doubt it, I've never seen him have any trouble holding his own against anyone.
I've tangled with Doc many, many times. I don't think he's ever stalked me, or called in his goon squad. Then again, I may not be quite the adversary you guys are?
I can see where it would get annoying and tiresome having things you've said used against you, dragging one thread into another, etc. But, it's how debates are won. Anything you say can and will be used against you. Don't get into a paintball war with an Army Ranger, he will use everything he knows to turn you bright red. Don't get into a debate with someone who knows how to gather info, he'll use all the resources available to make you look bad. Yeah, it sucks being on the wrong side of that. Pick your battles, and ignore those you don't want to debate with. If you engage, expect no mercy.
FWIW, I do appreciate you taking the time to explain your position. Thanks!