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Why did you not tell us?

Discussion in 'Religious Issues' started by Vic Hays, Apr 15, 2012.


    "An Impressive Scene

    In the visions of the night a very impressive scene passed before me. I saw an immense ball of fire fall among some beautiful mansions, causing their instant destruction. I heard someone say: “We knew that the judgments of God were coming upon the earth, but we did not know that they would come so soon.” Others, with agonized voices, said: “You knew! Why then did you not tell us? We did not know.” On every side I heard similar words of reproach spoken.
    In great distress I awoke. I went to sleep again, and I seemed to be in a large gathering. One of authority was addressing the company, before whom was spread out a map of the world. He said that the map pictured God’s vineyard, which must be cultivated. As light from heaven shone upon anyone, that one was to reflect the light to others. Lights were to be kindled in many places, and from these lights still other lights were to be kindled.
    The words were repeated: “Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savor, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden underfoot of men. Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.” Matthew 5:13-16.
    I saw jets of light shining from cities and villages, and from the high places and the low places of the earth. God’s word was obeyed, and as a result there
    were memorials for Him in every city and village. His truth was proclaimed throughout the world.
    Then this map was removed and another put in its place. On it light was shining from a few places only. The rest of the world was in darkness, with only a glimmer of light here and there. Our Instructor said: “This darkness is the result of men’s following their own course. They have cherished hereditary and cultivated tendencies to evil. They have made questioning and faultfinding and accusing the chief business of their lives. Their hearts are not right with God. They have hidden their light under a bushel.”
    If every soldier of Christ had done his duty, if every watchman on the walls of Zion had given the trumpet a certain sound, the world might ere this have heard the message of warning. But the work is years behind. While men have slept, Satan has stolen a march upon us."
  2. Geko45

    Geko45 Smartass Pilot CLM

    Nov 1, 2002
    "Be careful not to do your 'acts of righteousness' before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven." - Matthew 6:1

    Seems like Matthew can't even stick to his own story.
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2012

  3. Blast

    Blast 'nuff said

    Aug 2, 2002
    NKY/Cincinnati area
    Major difference between acts for example and acts for glory.
    Motive is everything. Helping others from the heart is example.
    Helping others to promote and glorify self is a different matter.
  4. Geko45

    Geko45 Smartass Pilot CLM

    Nov 1, 2002
    While I agree that there is an important difference in intent, Matthew is talking about actual actions here. Should good works be done publicly so that others may see or not?
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2012
  5. Kingarthurhk

    Kingarthurhk Isaiah 53:4-9

    Sep 5, 2010
    Context is everything.

    Luke 21:1-4, "<sup>1</sup> As Jesus looked up, he saw the rich putting their gifts into the temple treasury. <sup id="en-NIV-25829" class="versenum">2</sup> He also saw a poor widow put in two very small copper coins. <sup id="en-NIV-25830" class="versenum">3</sup> “Truly I tell you,” he said, “this poor widow has put in more than all the others. <sup id="en-NIV-25831" class="versenum">4</sup> All these people gave their gifts out of their wealth; but she out of her poverty put in all she had to live on

    Who was greater in the eyes of God? Those that gave with pomp and ceremony for all to see a portion of their wealth, or the widow that gave all she had?

    No one else paid attention, but God did.

    Luke 18:9-14, "<sup>9</sup> To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: <sup id="en-NIV-25699" class="versenum">10</sup> “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. <sup id="en-NIV-25700" class="versenum">11</sup> The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. <sup id="en-NIV-25701" class="versenum">12</sup> I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

    <sup id="en-NIV-25702" class="versenum">13</sup> “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’ <sup id="en-NIV-25703" class="versenum">14</sup> “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted

    God sees the heart. It cannot be hidden from Him.

    Matthew 24:14, "<sup>14</sup> And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come."

    Mark 16:15, "<sup>15</sup> He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. <sup id="en-NIV-24890" class="versenum">16</sup> Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."

    Matthew 5:13-14, "<sup>13</sup> “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
    <sup id="en-NIV-23249" class="versenum">14</sup> “You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. <sup id="en-NIV-23250" class="versenum">15</sup> Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. <sup id="en-NIV-23251" class="versenum">16</sup> In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven. "

    The context of the "Great Comission" given by God to those that believe.

    The same God says in Ezekiel 3:18, "When I say to a wicked man, 'You will surely die,' and you do not warn him or speak out to dissuade him from his evil ways in order to save his life, that wicked man will die for his sin, and I will hold you accountable for his blood."

    Zechariah 3:1-2, " Then he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan<sup class="footnote" value='[a]'>[a]</sup> standing at his right side to accuse him. <sup id="en-NIV-22915" class="versenum">2</sup> The LORD said to Satan, “The LORD rebuke you, Satan! The LORD, who has chosen Jerusalem, rebuke you! Is not this man a burning stick snatched from the fire?”

    So, by what authority do you accuse a man, who has only come to do what Jesus has comissioned him to do?

    We are here doing our best to do the following:

    1 Peter 3:15, "But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,"

    We have debated with you as best we can to try and persuade you toward hope, peace, and salvation in Jesus Christ.

    1 Corinthians 1:27-31, "But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. <sup id="en-NIV-28392" class="versenum">28</sup> God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, <sup id="en-NIV-28393" class="versenum">29</sup> so that no one may boast before him. <sup id="en-NIV-28394" class="versenum">30</sup> It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. <sup id="en-NIV-28395" class="versenum">31</sup> Therefore, as it is written: “Let the one who boasts boast in the Lord.”<sup class="footnote" value='[d]'>[d]</sup>

    So, there may not be many among us who hold PHD's in physics, or biology, or the like. We come to you with the simple truth of salvation through Jesus Christ.

    In doing so, we try to do that as best we can in love, though, the written word on a board may not convey that in the best format.

    However, it is another medium to try to bring the Gospel to the world, as we are commanded to do. So, here we are.
  6. You seem to be able to identify hypocrisy especially in Christians. I think letting your light shine has to do with being a real Christian not grandstanding.

    At any rate you will not be able to say that you have not been warned of impending judgments coming upon the earth.
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2012
  7. Brasso

    Brasso Millennium Member

    Excellent reply Kingarthurhk,

    Now, about those works....
  8. Kingarthurhk

    Kingarthurhk Isaiah 53:4-9

    Sep 5, 2010
    As to works? They should come from our relationship with Jesus Christ. We should want to serve Him out of love. In oder to love someone, we need to devote time getting to know them.

    Perhaps a rather poor analogy, but say you and I know each other as friends and perhaps coworkers. Do I do good deeds to you to earn something from you? Or, because you are my friend, I want to do good things for you?

    I am by no means disregarding works, but rather putting things in the right order.

    We cannot earn our way to heaven. We can't by our actions create a relationship with Jesus. He tells us to come as we are.

    The relationship with Jesus is dynamic. We are either going forward or backward. When we go forward works are natural result of the relatioship, given to us by Jesus with the power to overcome, because we are powerless to overcome by our own might.

    We are told are righteousness is as "filthy rags", or in a more literal context, rags that a woman would have her period on.

    However, through the parable of the wedding feast, we are shown that Christ puts His robe of righteousness upon us so that when the accuser comes, Jesus stands in our stead rather than oursleves.

    As James says faith without deeds is dead. He also shows that deeds alone are not sufficient without faith.

    You know scripture as well as I do, so there is no need to track down all the scriptures for you.

    But, that is the interplay of faith and works. We are told to seek first the kingdom of heaven, and all the other things will be added unto us.
  9. Geko45

    Geko45 Smartass Pilot CLM

    Nov 1, 2002
    Do you realize that you are only taught this to make you easier to control here on earth? To dupe you into spending your one and only life in service to an organized religion that feeds off its prey, err.. members like a parasite?
  10. Kingarthurhk

    Kingarthurhk Isaiah 53:4-9

    Sep 5, 2010
    No. What I do is by choice. A church building isn't going to save me. A particular denomination is not going to save me. I am willing to give my one and only earthly life in service to Christ, which is a pittance compared to what He has given me. Moreover, I give in cheefully.

    I am by no means Mother Terresa. But, who where would criticize the way she lived her one and only earthly life giving and carring for those that society rejected?

    There is nothing parasitical going on. If anyone is a beggar it is me to my Savior, and not the other way around.

    Moreover, I am given an assurance and a peace that passes all understanding.

    How many people can say that they have that?

    Further, I have hope in a future that is beyond my 75 or so years afforded to humanity in this current life.

    My only disappointment is that I am not in the position to do more.
  11. Geko45

    Geko45 Smartass Pilot CLM

    Nov 1, 2002
    But what he has "given" you can not be seen or measured in this life and if it is not true then you will never know it as you will simply cease to exist.

    I would commend her and those like her as she went directly to those in need and helped them. I've never claimed religion is universally bad. Afterall, even a broken clock is right twice a day. But for each Mother Teresa religion produces, how many shysters and charlatans are cranked out too?

    But what if you've been lied to all this time?

    That is a noble ideal and I genuinely commend you for it. Even if I think you are misguided at times.
  12. Brasso

    Brasso Millennium Member

    Of course.

    "If you love Me, keep the commandments."

    Works are as filthy rags, when we don't keep them for Him, but for man. When done for Him, they are our sanctification.

    I was speaking about which works, however, rather than how we do them.

    See my sig line. He does not change.
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2012
  13. If you are actually born again there is no need to stress works.

    Galatians 2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
    2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
    2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
  14. Kingarthurhk

    Kingarthurhk Isaiah 53:4-9

    Sep 5, 2010
    If you are right, then I will have at least lived a worthwhile life. If you are wrong, I have gained much more. Do you buy insurance? I am sure you probably do. Why do that, if you are not anticipating the potential of something happening? I have confidence that there is a life to come. Trust in Jesus is my asurance and insurance.

    There are plenty of those on both accounts. But, we we warned in advance about the latter group.

    Acts 20:27-31, "<sup>27</sup> For I have not hesitated to proclaim to you the whole will of God. <sup id="en-NIV-27655" class="versenum">28</sup> Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God,<sup class="footnote" value='[a]'>[a]</sup> which he bought with his own blood.<sup class="footnote" value='[b]'>[b]</sup> <sup id="en-NIV-27656" class="versenum">29</sup> I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. <sup id="en-NIV-27657" class="versenum">30</sup> Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. <sup id="en-NIV-27658" class="versenum">31</sup> So be on your guard! Remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears."

    I haven't. I grow more daily in the truth. The more I learn the more I want to share.

    I am here for the same reason Jesus came here, though, I am by no means a comparison or worthy.

    John 3:16-21, " For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. <sup id="en-NIV-26138" class="versenum">17</sup> For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. <sup id="en-NIV-26139" class="versenum">18</sup> Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. <sup id="en-NIV-26140" class="versenum">19</sup> This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. <sup id="en-NIV-26141" class="versenum">20</sup> Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. <sup id="en-NIV-26142" class="versenum">21</sup> But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God."

    There it is, asurance, and insurance.
  15. Brasso

    Brasso Millennium Member

    Unless of course you are teaching people to disregard some commandments, making yourself least in the kingdom. Just trying to help.

    The reason you think I'm stressing them is because you are teaching against them.
  16. Kingarthurhk

    Kingarthurhk Isaiah 53:4-9

    Sep 5, 2010
    He has never, ever taught that the 10 commandments given in Exodus 20, and actually spoken of in Genesis long before they were codified by the finger of God have been aborogated.

    In fact, last month, I myself have presented a copy of my presentation at Sabbath School on this very matter. So, neither, Vic, nor I have ever spoken against the 10 Commandments.
  17. I don't know why you are in such denial as to which commandments lead to life. Jesus could differentiate between ceremony and morality. Do you love ceremony so much? Do you like to wear your tsis tsis or whatever they are so much?

    Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
    19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
    19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

    We have gone over and over that the Bible says the Ten Commandments are the covenant.
  18. rgregoryb

    rgregoryb Sapere aude

    Oct 20, 2004
    Republic of Alabama
    Isn't the OP a work by E G White?
  19. Brasso

    Brasso Millennium Member

    And you're still wrong.

    The covenant Israel agree to was the entire Torah. It's the entire Torah that Messiah said would not pass away. It's the entire Torah that God says was forever.

    Show me one single place where the Bible says the covenant is what you call the 10 commandments?
  20. I have provided Bible texts that call the Ten Commandments the Covenant. You have yet to supply the same for the book of the Law.

    Should I go with your version and deny the Bible?